AIBU to think this is unacceptable of the school

[anerki101]

My DS has suspected ASC. We have been waiting ages for a meeting with the school to discuss - that's another thread!

But anyway, DS is 4. Started school in Septemeber. He is 100% toilet trained nothing day and night. Never has accidents. Accept at school. If he doesn't do his daily poo at home after school, then he poos his pants at school. Its becoming an almost daily occurance. This started at the beginning of December. In all that time the staff have only noticed ONCE that he has had an accident and changed him.

Today I found out DS had done a poo in his pants between 12 and 1. I picked him up at 4:15. He'd been sitting in his own poo for three to four hours.

AIBU to think this is totally unacceptable?

The school are aware of these accidents. I have had several discussions with his teacher about preventing, etc. Nothing has worked so far but the biggest issue is that they aren't noticing he's had an accident and leaving him to sit in it all day.

He’s 4. If the school staff aren’t smelling it, they aren’t paying enough attention.

I’m a TA. I regularly change a child in our year group who wears nappies.
I think the issue is more that the Teacher and TA aren’t aware of the fact that he has pooed . I can smell things very easily and could easily pinpoint the exact child, my Class Teacher can’t. My point is, regardless of why he is pooing at school there needs to be some way of him letting the TA (or Teacher know) in case they don’t notice. Because as you said he isn’t likely to tell them and we aren’t allowed to physically check.
I agree the situation is awful and in my opinion the school should be doing way more. I’ve sat in the toilet for 2 hours many times getting a child comfortable enough to go to the toilet but appreciate that’s not for everyone.
Oh and we have phones in every class to the poster who said most schools don’t. We are in a very deprived area, 75% PP and EAL so definitely not an affluent school.

Daily. With no extra funding or training or staff to deal with an incontinent four year old and 27 other kids.

We don’t have phones in every class. We don’t have any phones in any class.

What is the ‘way more’ people like yourself should be doing?

This. If the school won't deal with it it becomes a disability access issue.

Leaving the issue of whether the teacher and TA notices there are two things you could immediately do to manage the situation:

1. bring him home every lunchtime, regardless of whether he says he needs to go, and give him plenty of time to go

2. do a "walk through" of the toilet facilities with him, ask him to point out the issues and identify if they can be solved or mitigated

Especially since it's a known issue they could be monitoring.

@Zonder

Youre right and they need to sort it. The whole “we are understaffed woe is me I don’t have a TA/phone act” is not good enough. Get a walky talky to the office get a strategy, do something. Do not leave this child to sit in his own poo all day. Go to the head teacher immediately.

OP are you sure it isn't encopresis? It starts around 4 in previously toilet trained children and is very common in autistic kids. They normally need medicine until they outgrow it.

Who is paying for the walkie talkies?

To be fair, they're probably not.

Infants don't often flush and there's generally water all over the place.

I can't see why he can't be asked straight after lunch if he needs to go and someone take him.

Who? So far there’s only one employee on here who can spend two hours of the school day with a kid in the toilet.

I didn’t say I should be doing more, I said the school should be doing more. To have no contact from the SENCo in 2 months for a child with continence issues and suspected ASD is shocking. But as a TA I would also move heaven and earth to make sure a 4 year old doesn’t sit in shit all day, cause you know that’s sort of part of my job. Regularly checking in with him, building a relationship with him so he felt comfortable to tell me, asking Mum to come in at lunch and even sitting in the toilet with him. Yes I have 1000 other things to do but nothing is more important than the welfare of a child.

Im not saying you do have phones, you implied that only affluent schools do and I was saying we are certainly not affluent. No TA, no phone and no way of communicating is a huge safeguarding concern. We had a child have a serious medical incident, how would that work with no means to communicate?

If thats the case then the school should be supporting the parent to get an EHCP plus every school has an SEN budget. I am sick to the back teeth of the no funding mantra how would you feel if it was your child?

My goodness are you always so bitter and nasty? I spent some time with a child to help them, it wasn’t every day. And it solved the issue. Sometimes you need to put in a bit of groundwork so to speak to support the situation.
It’s a 4 year old little boy, he’s not doing it deliberately just to annoy you and disrupt your day. If you are showing that much frustration at a 4 year old then maybe you are in the wrong job?

Are you a teacher? You don't sound particularly compassionate. I'm talking about a four year child with suspected SEN who is left to sit in his own poo for hours. I get it. The government have done a number on schools and education. It's understaffed and underfunded. It's shit. I get that. But we're still talking about a four year old child. An actual human being that deserves a bit of dignity and compassion here.

You sound like a fab TA and one who truly gives a shit about the kids xx

He can't wipe well but he genuinely isn't even using the toilet at school. I've seen the difference between a few skids because he Wipes badly and full on poo

My first thought would be a pull up which can be changed if there’s an accident without ruining his entire trousers but if he’s too shy/ embarrassed to ask for help to change himself and he can’t do it himself then I don’t think this will work.

I would definitely log the times he seems to be going for a poo at school and at home too.
If there’s a regular pattern then it will be much easier to help him.

I have students with toileting issues.
We are fortunate that as a specialist school we have much higher ratio of staff to pupils than mainstream schools do, so there is often someone on hand who can take them to the toilet.

A couple just forget to go so they need to be told at certain times of the day to go and try.
There’s also one who was bowel issues through anxiety which could be something to be mindful of.

It could be that he is eating his lunch and then running around straight after which triggers a bowel movement.

If he only does one poo a day then I would try and get him to do one at home - easier said than done of course.

If you are able to then I would ask to check him and change him at the end of lunchtime.
If he gets used to you doing it at school then he might be more open to staff doing it.
You’ll also be able to tell roughly the time he is going.

This is the most obvious solution surely? Why aren't you doing this @anerki101 ?

Who in the school should be doing more?

I’m a teacher, yes. Your four year old is one of literally millions who are entering a school system unable to meet their needs. That’s the bottom line.

Very common to be in this predicament in the classroom. We used to send a sensible child to the office with a laminated red card which meant 'help urgently required'.

I’m not even going to bother replying to you. Read my post. It’s very clear.

I’m not frustrated with the kids, I’m frustrated with the adults who claim sitting with a kid for two hours in a toilet is in any way reasonable in an education system.

I would move schools, some mainstreams are much more inclusive than others.

They need to check but you should also get medical advice asap.