To think relationships shouldn't last forever...

[Pinkbonbon]

I mean, I'm not saying there isn't the odd relationship where people have been together 40 years and really compliment one another and work well together...

But generally speaking, I wouldn't expect to stay with anyone longer than...a decade. I mean, even if its a very healthy relationship, two people change a lot in 10 years. Incompatibilities would likely start to show. Irks arrive. Possibly even contempts set in. Surely emotionally healthy people don't stay in relationships once they get to that point?

Obviously people often have kids of course, which ties them together longer (imo, often longer than it should have).

Anyway...my point is that when I date, I look for a man that I can spend a good few years with, have fun and be good company for eachother and then when it runs its course, go our separate ways.

I really don't understand the mindset many people have of dating to 'settle down' or to 'find their forever person'. Because realistically, relationships usually aren't forever. And many of those that are, shouldnt be. I don't need a partner to complete my life. They're just..added spice.

Aibu?

When as a teacher long ago I wanted students to get an idea of what Aristotle meant by 'aretai'/excellences/virtues - things the possession of which conduced to a good human life - I used to ask them to think of and describe what they would like to be when they were grown, or (some of them (usually wrongly) thinking they were already grown-up) what they would like for their children to be; ... what hopes for our children? What qualities go to make a good life?

Well? ... Riches? Beauty? Good health? Long life? Good friends? Good sex? Good morals? ... The list could be long, indeed (and possibly varied, though maybe Aristotle himself might have demurred).

One of the excellent things to have (conducing to a good life, remember, for a human being), perhaps, is the particular kind of love to be found existing between very good and close friends; not erotic love, or the love between parent and child, or the generalised love for humanity which Christians tell us to have for our neighbours, but something else. You know what this is, I suspect, and could recognise it even if you never experienced it. Call it 'philos' -- very like what the old Greeks called 'philos', indeed, in many ways.

OK. Philos is sometimes achievable between long-term couples, partners who, perhaps having experienced erotic love and/or romantic love for each other, get to become good close friends one with another.

This is worth while. It makes life good fun to be partnered by someone who loves you - and whom you love - in this way.

It's maybe not the only way to live a good life. But it surely is one way. Some of us know this from experience. It's not constraining to love and be loved in this way; rather it liberates.

So OP you AIBU. (Though, of course, nothing lasts forever. Forever would indeed be too long. But that's another matter.)

Firstly I wasn't personally saying that I think that about you or single people. I was saying that your guess or projection that all long term couples were unhappy and had held each other back was just as bad as if someone who was married looked on you with pity for being single projecting that you were lonely, sad, mad, difficult, cold, unattractive, frigid and so on.

However given that you are in a long term relationship yourself, perhaps you pity youself or are declaring your own misery in your relationship or did you have a name change fail, because if not that you aren't making much sense as other posters have pointed out.

@mydogisthebest

They were incredibly in love and happy.

My parents were in love and happy too until their deaths.

I still think they, particularly my mum, would have achieved more and ultimately been more fulfilled if they had gone it alone. I watched my dad flower again in his 80s after my mum’s death. He found himself in so many ways it was a joy to watch.

Marriage is probably a net positive for most men because old men are hopeless in most respects and can’t function without a “mother”. For most women having to fulfill this role holds them back in so many ways. It limits what they can do, limits their social life and their intellectual freedom severely. And if they haven’t worked enough to afford to leave they are trapped.

I dare say there are marriages where this doesn’t happen and evidently ir hasn’t happened in yours. I do think it’s the default for most people though.

@Woodenheart33

Again, you're projecting a load of your own prejudices about single people onto me which are a) judgemental and slightly nasty and b) inaccurate and misdirected because I'm not single.

You've made a bit of a fool of yourself already by saying I'm lonely and can't keep a man (without any evidence) because I don't think long-term marriage is a great idea for everyone. Now it has been pointed out to you that you've made a load of incorrect sweeping assumptions you're digging yourself into a further hole saying I "don't make sense" and diagnosing "misery" in my relationship.

You seem incapable of grasping that some women may be fundamentally uncomfortable with their role in marriages or settled long-term relationships. You wouldn't be the first to do so, because society is always telling women they aren't complete without a man. But a lot of us are ambivalent about this, not only me. Just because you can't get your head around this doesn't mean those of us who do understand the nuances "don't make sense".

It's perfectly possible to love someone deeply but also to be fundamentally uncomfortable being in a settled relationship. The two things are not mutually exclusive. Lots of women struggle with this and find the idea of a long, traditional, settled partnership problematic.

Your lack of imagination and perspective isn't my problem.

Because most men past the age of 40 are incredibly grumpy, set in their -weird- ways, and just want a woman to run around after them.

If you have spent a good amount of time being single, it's a serious drag to go from total freedom to having to plot your life around some guy's moods.

No I am really not projecting, you are. I know many single women at all stages of their lives who have a great time and are none of those things. I am married but would rather be single than in an unhappy or simply comfortable relationship.

However you seem to be in defensive mode, you don't like being called out on your solipsism or you perhaps have issues with reading comprehension as you have spectacularly failed to either read or understand my pervious post, which I may add other posters were able to grasp just fine.

Perhaps don't bother posting such nonsense if it so upsets you to have your faulty logic and self centred thinking exposed?

@Woodenheart33

However you seem to be in defensive mode, you don't like being called out on your solipsism or you perhaps have issues with reading comprehension as you have spectacularly failed to either read or understand my pervious post, which I may add other posters were able to grasp just fine.

Can you point me to the "solipsism"?

When you refer to your pervious [sic] post you presumably are referring to the one in which you said to me:

It's no better than a married woman looking at you with pity and thinking how miserable and sad your lonely little life must be or what must be wrong with you that you can't keep a man's interest.

With the best will in the world it's hard to draw any conclusion from this other than:

a) you thought I was single because I found the prospect of lifelong marriage depressing and assumed I was defensive about being single (because clearly no married woman would find this depressing)
b) you privately think that single people are all lonely and can't keep a man's interest
c) you therefore assume that all women who claim to enjoy being single are actually lying to themselves.

If I've misunderstood this can you not see how I got here?

In your previous post you said your parents were constantly bickering so obviously not very happy and in love.

Happy loving couples don't bicker constantly.

My parents died within 2 weeks of each other which, in all honesty, I was grateful for. I know neither would have been happy without the other and, quite likely, would not have lived for that long anyway

What Woodenheart was pointing out was that if you use sweeping negative generalisations to describe long marriages then it’s no better (or accurate) than making sweeping negative assumptions about single people.

An example of solipsism is refusing to acknowledge or believe that there are views on this which deviate from your own.

I just don't believe we should go out searching for a forever person. I find it weird some people are so offended by that.

I just believe that lots of people want love and companionship and children. I find it weird that you think they'd be better off without that, and that they'd be happier with a string of brief relationships, ending up alone and with no family.

I don't agree, I'd been best friends with DH for 14 years before we were a couple, we've now been together almost 14 years on top. We've both changed over time to some extent, but we still have the same values, priorities etc, the same love, affection is there and seeing him grows into the man he has, has deepened that in some ways. If that's not for you that's up to you, but don't dismiss what others have.

I see happy couples everywhere. My in laws have been together 40 years and get drunk, dance, giggle and whisper in the kitchen like teenagers. I completely agree that if something doesn't work it's better to walk away but I can't say my experience has been of people miserable (apart from on here where I assume no one posts AIBUs about their great relationships!)

My husband and I have been together 10 years and have two very young kids so, yes, I hope we last 20 more. I still fancy the pants off the man and there is no one I'd rather be with. If that changes I imagine I would walk away. But as things stand I'm excited to grow more with him.

@Pinkbonbon

Parents have been married a good 40 years infact. They get on, they work well together I suppose. Butive often thought mum would probably have been happier single. And dad is with her because he needs someone.

^^^^^^
And there we have it.
Your parent's marriage doesn't sound that great.
I know many people who were truly happy / still are in long term marriages.
My mum , until the day she died couldn't wait for dad to come home after work.
Dad himself was lucky enough to meet a lovely lady a few years after mum died.
They were happy together for over 30 years.
She once said how dad would come home from work and drag her off somewhere.
She loved the bones off him.
When he died she sold up and moved- too many memories.
She said she'd never get over over losing him.
When you love someone you work at it.

Do you not feel like you may have been conditioned by society to see women only in the role of mother? It doesn't suit everyone and yet marriage and kids is genuinely sold to us as an achievable fairytale.

I have to say as well, I've heard this exact same argument used against me by a complete misogynist on Facebook that I would become old and miserable without a man.

It do incredibly reductive of our human experience on this planet. We're not just here to have a boyfriend.

Hmm...As far as marriages go I'd argue my parents are one of the healthier ones. They respect eachothers space, rarely bicker, do equal shares of housework. But it feels like a 'it's just what you're supposed do' relationship. Like they're together because they always have been and never really thought about it. I can't help but feel they never really became who they wanted themselves to be. They just settled into marriage life because it was comfortable, had a kid and forgot there was supposed to be more to it than that.

It sounds like your parents had a lovely relationship. Perhaps I am jaded in that i can't say I've ever seen a proper lovey dovey relationship that lasted. But I just think we should focus on creating our own life and partners should just be like seasoning and spice. But not integral.

Exactly this!

Many people replying 'but what about kids?' As of they never considered that IF having a child means tying yourself to another person for your whole life its probably a bad idea! Especially looking at the divorce rates these days!

For some that may be worth the gamble. But id argue the many of people 'settle down' and have kids not because they genuinely want them but because they've been conditioned by society into thinking its what they are supposed to do.

So many drive themselves mad on here because they're they're single, late 30s and not pregnant yet. It all sounds horribley miserable to me. To base your whole life's happiness on a non existent being (and likely non existent longterm partner who is and will remain their 'one' forever).

So many more breaking their hearts over men who seemed like their forever because theyre so in love with the fairytale ideal that they cannot accept that for them, it's not real. And if they'd just loved themselves a fraction as much as they loved a fantasy, they could be free to create a real happiness.

Like, choose you. Choose you first.

@Pinkbonbon

It sounds like your parents had a lovely relationship. Perhaps I am jaded in that i can't say I've ever seen a proper lovey dovey relationship that lasted. But I just think we should focus on creating our own life and partners should just be like seasoning and spice. But not integral.
^^^^^^
Of course you should , regardless of relationship status.
Creating a great life and having a long term, successful relationship aren't mutually exclusive.
Mum did loads of stuff without dad and vice versa , but loads vid stuff together- they were a team.
I just don't think you're met the right person yet op.
I've been with DH nearly 30 years.
Our silver this year.
I love him more every year.
He's my best friend.
He encourages me in many ways and is and has always been my biggest supporter.

Are you ok? Like, actually ok? I’ve not been married 30 years, my parents have been married a lot longer than 30 years, my parents never argued, nothing huge anyway. I’m very happy in my marriage, if I wasn’t I’d be divorced like everyone in your family is. You sound completely broken, no wonder nobody wants to marry you. What’s all the making stories up about people you don’t know, have you always been a fantasist? Lol, you’re funny. Best of luck, you keep trying to tell yourself that you’re better off alone forever and that happy marriages don’t exist. You’ve obviously been hurt by every man that’s ever put his dick in you and you’re now broken 😉

They get on, they work well together I suppose. Butive often thought mum would probably have been happier single. And dad is with her because he needs someone

Well that sounds healthy 😂 Like I said, you’ve never seen an actual genuinely happy marriage. You’ve never been in love with someone who you wanted to be with and care for for the rest of your life. You’ve never been with anyone that special. I feel sorry for you.

Oh god no! To me that sounds hideous!

People change and relationships change, I've been with DH 15 years and of course our relationship has changed, we were mid twenties when we met, big drinkers and like the party lifestyle. Now we are tee total home bodies and we have a child. Although we are no longer swinging from the chandeliers we have intimacy and trust and as cringe as it sounds he's my best friend. He's seen me at my worst, my best and I know we'll be together til one of us passes on to higher glory 😆

I would hate to repeatedly date, but horses for courses and all that.

We've been happily married for nearly 50 years, so it does happen. More often than you might think.

We have been married 32 years, no children,neither of us is financially dependent on the other. We are together because we love each other! This idea that any long lasting relationship is basically a matter of convenience is just so sad.

It would probably have made your point better if you hadn't decided to sound so bitchy and insulting. I'm surprised anyone wanted to marry you with that attitude, TBH.

There's a middle ground, surely - 'a few years' as you said in your OP doesn't give room for the fulfilling parts of a properly long-term relationship where you know each other very well, have built something solid together. But equally I agree we shouldn't brand any relationship that doesn't last til death as a failure - relationships should last as long as they're working well, nothing more.

But - irks, incompatibilities, etc. I think it's actually less 'emotionally healthy' to assume a romantic relationship has to either stay perfect or be completely unworkable. Even the happiest strongest relationships I know go through periods where they're not gelling as well or are getting on one another's nerves - but they value the relationship as a whole higher than the briefer, day-to-day feeling and work through it. I'd find it weirder if someone dropped their partner of 5 years because they went through a month or so of being irritated by them.

Like you say, people change and we should probably encourage people to accept that romantic relationships don't have to be for life by any means and they still have value. But there's room to accept growth and change in your partner and still place higher value on the relationship as a whole, even if parts of it aren't exactly the same.

Do I want a partner I've built real trust and understanding and shared life with who gets on my nerves occasionally, or do I want a brand new partner who seems on paper 'perfect' but may also not be down the line? I guess your argument is that the shared life is a sunk cost fallacy keeping people together, but I think that's quite a sad way to view it - sometimes people stay out of fear of the unknown, sure, but often people just value what they've built together over years more than smaller, less consequential niggles.

Ah well, he did. And we’ve been happily married for 23 years, so I’m obviously doing something right 😉 Best of luck to you though 👏 😆