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Original poster

Lodger cranks up heating to 25

582 replies

Mumskisail · 05/01/2023 10:37

My partner left a few years ago and I had time off work for burnout and now in a less stressful (lower paid) role so on a tight income. I rent 2 rooms to help cover my mortgage and bills (about 40%).

The house is heated to 18-21 degrees depending on the room / personal preference, using Nest thermostats (called TRVs) on each radiator. It is lowered at 11pm until 5.30am, meaning it's warm for about an hour after going to bed and it heats up for a few hours before the lodgers get up.

One lodger is very happy with this and prefers a cooler room so sometimes turns it down.

But the other constantly overrides this and heats his room to 25. When I've tried to speak to him about it he answers his door in a tshirt and is only wearing normal socks. The rest of us have warm clothes, slippers and big fleece hoodies on winter evenings, and use fleece blankets to stay cosy on the sofa.

We seem to be in a battle of wills. He goes along with my suggested times and temperatures in discussion but has done everything including claiming his radiator and the TRV don't work, disconnecting the TRV but trying to make it look as though it's connected, saying it won't connect and pulling the little pin out with a pair of pliers to force the heating on. He leaves it on all night. The thermostat when it's reading says 25-26.

The other issue in this old Victorian house is that the heating pumping out all night causes banging in the pipes and keeps myself and the other lodger awake, or wakes us up in the night. So we prefer lots of layers and a quiet night unless we're in a cold patch.

I've offered him extra duvets and blankets (his looks thin) and a hot water bottle but he refuses. I've asked him to discuss the times he wants the heating on and to talk about the heating.

He says the temperature reading is wrong so I gave him a wireless thermostat which showed the same temperature as the TRV and showed it was correct.

I've explained about the increasing cost of gas and showed him my bills. I've showed him the temperatures in the rest of the house and that we are comfortable.

This is the second winter we are having these issues. Last year his sister died so I just kept my mouth shut and left him to it but I felt really unhappy.

Do I just suck it up, winter will be over soon and I'm not making a loss. Or do I tell him it's not acceptable and ask him to leave? Or is it better the devil you know, this is the only issue.

A friend suggested a locking cover to go over the TRV, I'm so irritated it's tempting but is that really ethical? And anyway would he then just get an electric heater? I don't go into his room and I would never snoop.

He's a 44 year old man having to rent a room and it must be his sanctuary and private space.

Do I just let him win the battle and chill out?

OP posts:
WorriedWarrier · 09/01/2023 20:00

BradfordGirl · 09/01/2023 18:06

There is no UK law but a room has to be fit for human habitation. If you were taken to court a lodger could win on the basis that you are providing a room dangerous to health.

Win based on what?

BradfordGirl · 09/01/2023 20:28

Based on it being potentially an illegal contract and any potential health impacts e.g. increase in asthma attacks.
Contract law still says that conditions in any contract have to be reasonable and proportionate.

Flapjackquack · 09/01/2023 20:55

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request

Flapjackquack · 09/01/2023 20:59

So there is no UK law about room temperature but a contract that states a room temperature may be illegal. Just give up, you look a bit silly.

snowlolo · 10/01/2023 09:37

Flapjackquack · 09/01/2023 16:56

I give up. No not just to me, it seems most people on this thread also think 25 is not in the range of normal. I forget on MN, no one can just be difficult, he must have some big life trauma that stops him from wearing a jumper. Heaven knows how this man leaves the house between September and May.

Show quote history

I don't think I said anything about a "big life trauma that stops him wearing a jumper". That's patronising and presumptuous. Whatever the reason, he wants the temperature as he wants it, and he has agency to make that decision because the landlord hasn't put an agreement in place that says otherwise.

In terms of a lodger/ tenancy agreement it doesn't matter what 'most people' consider normal. You need to have a written agreement or you'll run into problems.

OP didn't have a written agreement on this, and lo and behold she's running into problems, because people are not all the same. It's as simple as that.

LessSugarIn23 · 10/01/2023 09:42

How come no-one has posted that they have their heating set at 25 degrees whilst lounging in summer wear in the middle of winter?

Unless they are loaded then I can't see many people doing it.

snowlolo · 10/01/2023 09:46

LessSugarIn23 · 10/01/2023 09:42

How come no-one has posted that they have their heating set at 25 degrees whilst lounging in summer wear in the middle of winter?

Unless they are loaded then I can't see many people doing it.

OK - but howcome he does want the heating at 25 if it's suffocating and uncomfortable?

It obviously isn't uncomfortable for him or he wouldn't do it.

It's most likely on the warm/ cosy side, and his personal preference, and as the landlord hasn't actually put any limits in the tenancy agreement, there's no reason for him not to do it.

Is he taking advantage? Probably, but OP was daft not to forsee it and put an agreement in place.

Flapjackquack · 10/01/2023 09:55

snowlolo · 10/01/2023 09:46

OK - but howcome he does want the heating at 25 if it's suffocating and uncomfortable?

It obviously isn't uncomfortable for him or he wouldn't do it.

It's most likely on the warm/ cosy side, and his personal preference, and as the landlord hasn't actually put any limits in the tenancy agreement, there's no reason for him not to do it.

Is he taking advantage? Probably, but OP was daft not to forsee it and put an agreement in place.

Show quote history

There very obviously is a normal range as evidenced by the majority of people having their house 18-21. As I said where does OP draw the line with what needs to go in the agreement? At some point you have to make an assumption of what most people consider reasonable. Although BradfordGirl is now arguing that putting a temperature range in the agreement will make it illegal so who knows what OP is meant to do at this point to satisfy her lodger, you and BradfordGirl except pay very big heating bills and listen to noisy pipes one assumes.

And yes someone did say a trauma may be stopping him from wearing a jumper (BradfordGirl I believe) so perhaps tell them that’s “patronising and presumptuous” rather than me who thinks it’s just a little absurd in this circumstance.

Bog · 10/01/2023 10:19

I think you and the other tenant should tell him to look for somewhere else to live.

snowlolo · 10/01/2023 12:34

Flapjackquack · 10/01/2023 09:55

There very obviously is a normal range as evidenced by the majority of people having their house 18-21. As I said where does OP draw the line with what needs to go in the agreement? At some point you have to make an assumption of what most people consider reasonable. Although BradfordGirl is now arguing that putting a temperature range in the agreement will make it illegal so who knows what OP is meant to do at this point to satisfy her lodger, you and BradfordGirl except pay very big heating bills and listen to noisy pipes one assumes.

And yes someone did say a trauma may be stopping him from wearing a jumper (BradfordGirl I believe) so perhaps tell them that’s “patronising and presumptuous” rather than me who thinks it’s just a little absurd in this circumstance.

Show quote history

Someone said it but not me so I don't know why you were quoting it back at me.

This doesn't make sense:

"you and BradfordGirl except pay very big heating bills and listen to noisy pipes one assumes."

But if it's a dig about what you think the temperature of my own home might be, it's actually within the average, but I'm capable of understanding that some people have a preference which is outside of the average and different to my own preference.

OP needs to account for this if she's going to let out her flat/ room and should have foreseen issues with not having any kind of agreement in place about it from the start.

At this point, the simple answer is to increase the energy bill if the lodger wants to keep this temperature. There was no agreement at the start so it is not fair at this point to expect him to change, because he wasn't told.

If he doesn't want to pay the increased bill then he can move out.

This is not complicated at all, but requires a basic understanding and respect for the fact that different people have different preferences.

snowlolo · 10/01/2023 12:40

Also, home thermostats can't exactly be taken as gospel. Just because it says 25 does not mean it is actually 25.

Mine often says 21 and it's actually 17/18. They're not always massively accurate.

Those saying 25 is too hot should consider it might well not actually be 25 degrees in the room.

Flapjackquack · 10/01/2023 12:57

@snowlolo - the OP has already said she verified it with a separate room thermometer.

I was not making a dig about your room temperature , not sure how you have got that from what I said?? I was saying that you are saying OP should have put temperature in the agreement, BradfordGirl is saying this would be illegal, but both are saying the lodger must be allowed to have it at 25, so that just leaves the OP having to pay higher bills and living with noisy pipes 24/7.

Why are you so determined that the OP must be unreasonable? The man has repeated lied and damaged the OPs property whilst expecting her to subsidise his ability to sit around in Tshirt and shorts all year round. How in a UK winter is this in anyway reasonable behaviour. You are apparently oh so empathetic and understanding to everyone but the OP and her other lodger.

Abitofalark · 10/01/2023 13:40

Very timely that Spare Room has put out some tips for landlords on how to talk to lodgers about money.

"How to avoid conflict

Money can be one of the most difficult things to talk about with your lodger, especially with the cost of living getting more expensive and bills getting higher.

So, how do you discuss money? When do you discuss money? The conversation needn't be tricky.

We’ve put together a list of ideas and advice from people who have taken in a lodger, so you can go into the conversation with confidence."

www.spareroom.co.uk/content/info-landlords/talking-to-lodgers-about-money?utm_campaign=autoresp_newsletter_lils_jan-1&utm_medium=email&utm_source=crm

I haven't read it but the OP and others might find it useful.

snowlolo · 10/01/2023 15:08

Flapjackquack · 10/01/2023 12:57

@snowlolo - the OP has already said she verified it with a separate room thermometer.

I was not making a dig about your room temperature , not sure how you have got that from what I said?? I was saying that you are saying OP should have put temperature in the agreement, BradfordGirl is saying this would be illegal, but both are saying the lodger must be allowed to have it at 25, so that just leaves the OP having to pay higher bills and living with noisy pipes 24/7.

Why are you so determined that the OP must be unreasonable? The man has repeated lied and damaged the OPs property whilst expecting her to subsidise his ability to sit around in Tshirt and shorts all year round. How in a UK winter is this in anyway reasonable behaviour. You are apparently oh so empathetic and understanding to everyone but the OP and her other lodger.

I didn't actually say that OP is unreasonable - or that the lodger isn't. They are both at fault.

I can see why OP is frustrated with the current situation and the way the lodger is behaving, but I'm saying it was a complete oversight on her part not to have thought of this from the outset and put an agreement in place. Temperature disagreements are extremely commonplace and it's just sensible. Both the OP AND the lodger are at fault here.

I was not making a dig about your room temperature , not sure how you have got that from what I said??

Well because what you said was garbled and ungrammatical so didn't make sense 😅

OP doesn't have to pay for the extra bills. As I've said repeatedly, she should simply put up the price at this point and lodger can move out if he doesn't like it.

What isn't reasonable is to have a go at him for wanting his room to be a certain temperature when it wasn't initially explained to him that he can't. You have to be up front about these things when someone moves in.

ElephantInTheKitchen · 10/01/2023 15:46

snowlolo · 10/01/2023 15:08

I didn't actually say that OP is unreasonable - or that the lodger isn't. They are both at fault.

I can see why OP is frustrated with the current situation and the way the lodger is behaving, but I'm saying it was a complete oversight on her part not to have thought of this from the outset and put an agreement in place. Temperature disagreements are extremely commonplace and it's just sensible. Both the OP AND the lodger are at fault here.

I was not making a dig about your room temperature , not sure how you have got that from what I said??

Well because what you said was garbled and ungrammatical so didn't make sense 😅

OP doesn't have to pay for the extra bills. As I've said repeatedly, she should simply put up the price at this point and lodger can move out if he doesn't like it.

What isn't reasonable is to have a go at him for wanting his room to be a certain temperature when it wasn't initially explained to him that he can't. You have to be up front about these things when someone moves in.

Show quote history

You should only need to be explicit about things that are outside the norm, and this cuts both ways.

The lodger in this case has an expectation of the room being very warm, and should have been upfront about this before moving in. The OP keeps her home at a typical temperature for a British home.

When last letting out my spare room I was super upfront about the non-standard things in the house (like seeking a dog loving lodger, because I have a dog, and some planned building works). I was also upfront about my "no bringing home randomers you've known less than 24 hours" rule, which keeps out drunken one night stands. I didn't feel the need to specify that they're not allowed to take up drumming or ritual animal sacrifice as a hobby, get a lizard that requires subtropical temperatures, or bring durian fruit home.

snowlolo · 10/01/2023 16:00

ElephantInTheKitchen · 10/01/2023 15:46

You should only need to be explicit about things that are outside the norm, and this cuts both ways.

The lodger in this case has an expectation of the room being very warm, and should have been upfront about this before moving in. The OP keeps her home at a typical temperature for a British home.

When last letting out my spare room I was super upfront about the non-standard things in the house (like seeking a dog loving lodger, because I have a dog, and some planned building works). I was also upfront about my "no bringing home randomers you've known less than 24 hours" rule, which keeps out drunken one night stands. I didn't feel the need to specify that they're not allowed to take up drumming or ritual animal sacrifice as a hobby, get a lizard that requires subtropical temperatures, or bring durian fruit home.

Show quote history

Ok, but surely 'Not turning up the heating' falls more closely alongside the category of 'no bringing home randomers' than 'ritual animal sacrifice as a hobby' 😅

It's one of the most common things that people in rented accommodation/ house shares disagree about.

OP said that heating was included in the bills. If you give the tenant access to a thermostat that they can control and don't specify otherwise when they move in, then they are going to assume they can change the thermostat to what they want.

Calphurnia88 · 10/01/2023 16:59

I didn't feel the need to specify that they're not allowed to take up drumming or ritual animal sacrifice as a hobby, get a lizard that requires subtropical temperatures, or bring durian fruit home.

🤣🤣🤣

Flapjackquack · 10/01/2023 17:39

ElephantInTheKitchen · 10/01/2023 15:46

You should only need to be explicit about things that are outside the norm, and this cuts both ways.

The lodger in this case has an expectation of the room being very warm, and should have been upfront about this before moving in. The OP keeps her home at a typical temperature for a British home.

When last letting out my spare room I was super upfront about the non-standard things in the house (like seeking a dog loving lodger, because I have a dog, and some planned building works). I was also upfront about my "no bringing home randomers you've known less than 24 hours" rule, which keeps out drunken one night stands. I didn't feel the need to specify that they're not allowed to take up drumming or ritual animal sacrifice as a hobby, get a lizard that requires subtropical temperatures, or bring durian fruit home.

Show quote history

How dare you, I only feel comfortable eating my durian fruit in front of my lizard collection. You don’t get to decide what I deem to be comfortable and I must be accommodated to a standard I dictate.

Quincythequince · 11/01/2023 07:49

BradfordGirl · 09/01/2023 18:20

The World Health Organisation states UK households should have a room temperature in winter that's a few degrees above that, at around 18C, to keep a "well-dressed person" healthy. The Energy Saving Trust advises that you should set your thermostat to the lowest comfortable temperature and says families should aim for around 18-21C.
A study by housing expert Richard Moore found a shocking link between housing temperatures and the risk of major health conditions:
24C+ – Cardiovascular risk of strokes and heart attacks
21-24C – Increasing discomfort
18-21C – Comfortable temperatures
16-18C – Discomfort, small health risks
12-16C – Risk of respiratory diseases
9-12C – Risk of strokes, heart attacks
<9°C – Risk of hypothermia

You are the lodger aren’t you!

How is your room-hunting going?

MzHz · 11/01/2023 07:58

BradfordGirl · 09/01/2023 18:06

There is no UK law but a room has to be fit for human habitation. If you were taken to court a lodger could win on the basis that you are providing a room dangerous to health.

No you fucking wouldn’t

and it would cost you a fortune,
take forever to get to court, then you would LOSE.

ridiculous batshittery.

Zonder · 11/01/2023 08:06

It seems @BradfordGirl is contradicting herself. Op has already said she heats the house 18-21c which BG shows is the comfortable and decent temp on her post.
So I don't think there is any risk of the lodger suing OP for providing a room dangerous to health for heating it 18-21c.

PinkSyCo · 12/01/2023 13:27

RandomMess · 06/01/2023 22:43

@LBFseBrom how does that work, what difference does it make what temperature it is outside?

25 is English summer "hot" weather, no one need their house that hot overnight year around, even 21 is on the top warm side for newborn babies.

Many many people don’t understand how thermostats work it seems. No wonder there is an energy crisis.

Original poster
Mumskisail · 16/01/2023 17:56

The lodger continued telling lies about the thermostat and being generally difficult. He must think I'm thick as two short planks.

He claimed he wasn't touching it but it was obvious he was disconnecting it each night and blasting the heating on full. The boiler, my smart meter and the banging pipes confirmed that. He wouldn't discuss it in person but only through WhatsApp where he was very rude.

Then he asked (via WhatsApp) if his son could stay over (this is over and above our agreement but he's a sweet boy and I've been happy to agree to it).

I said I thought it would be good if we could first discuss the heating to find a solution that worked for us both, and if he could pick up his share of the cleaning (10 mins a week vacuuming the hall, stairs and landing - He hasn't done it for months despite it being agreed when he moved in). I said I was happy for his son to stay regularly provided these two things are sorted.

Please be clear this is very unusual when someone rents a room to a single person; I was doing everything to be kind to Simon in welcoming his son into my home.

He got very abusive on WhatsApp. When I knocked on his door and told him that was unacceptable he threw a strop and decided to move out immediately without the agreed 1-months' notice in the contract.

I should mention he was wearing a t-shirt and bare feet and the wave of heat from his room was overwhelming.

I'm just glad to be rid of him so I'm not going to chase him for this and I have arranged to pass his post via someone who knows him.

My other lodger immediately admitted she feels relieved... she says he brought a very negative energy to the house but that she hadn't thought I'd been more than fair.

She's been so much happier, walking around the house singing and generally being more chatty and cheerful. I feel relieved too so it was definitely the right decision.

Also we are both sleeping much better without the banging pipes!

She is lovely, we do get on very well... I may try to manage with just one lodger.

OP posts:
Original poster
Mumskisail · 16/01/2023 17:58

Mumskisail · 16/01/2023 17:56

The lodger continued telling lies about the thermostat and being generally difficult. He must think I'm thick as two short planks.

He claimed he wasn't touching it but it was obvious he was disconnecting it each night and blasting the heating on full. The boiler, my smart meter and the banging pipes confirmed that. He wouldn't discuss it in person but only through WhatsApp where he was very rude.

Then he asked (via WhatsApp) if his son could stay over (this is over and above our agreement but he's a sweet boy and I've been happy to agree to it).

I said I thought it would be good if we could first discuss the heating to find a solution that worked for us both, and if he could pick up his share of the cleaning (10 mins a week vacuuming the hall, stairs and landing - He hasn't done it for months despite it being agreed when he moved in). I said I was happy for his son to stay regularly provided these two things are sorted.

Please be clear this is very unusual when someone rents a room to a single person; I was doing everything to be kind to Simon in welcoming his son into my home.

He got very abusive on WhatsApp. When I knocked on his door and told him that was unacceptable he threw a strop and decided to move out immediately without the agreed 1-months' notice in the contract.

I should mention he was wearing a t-shirt and bare feet and the wave of heat from his room was overwhelming.

I'm just glad to be rid of him so I'm not going to chase him for this and I have arranged to pass his post via someone who knows him.

My other lodger immediately admitted she feels relieved... she says he brought a very negative energy to the house but that she hadn't thought I'd been more than fair.

She's been so much happier, walking around the house singing and generally being more chatty and cheerful. I feel relieved too so it was definitely the right decision.

Also we are both sleeping much better without the banging pipes!

She is lovely, we do get on very well... I may try to manage with just one lodger.

Typo! I missed out a line above...

My other lodger said she hadn't wanted to mention that she didn't like sharing the house with him. She said she felt I'd been more than fair

OP posts:
Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 16/01/2023 18:00

Good result. Very pleased for you! I hope the next lodger is more reasonable.