Lodger cranks up heating to 25

[Mumskisail]

My partner left a few years ago and I had time off work for burnout and now in a less stressful (lower paid) role so on a tight income. I rent 2 rooms to help cover my mortgage and bills (about 40%).

The house is heated to 18-21 degrees depending on the room / personal preference, using Nest thermostats (called TRVs) on each radiator. It is lowered at 11pm until 5.30am, meaning it's warm for about an hour after going to bed and it heats up for a few hours before the lodgers get up.

One lodger is very happy with this and prefers a cooler room so sometimes turns it down.

But the other constantly overrides this and heats his room to 25. When I've tried to speak to him about it he answers his door in a tshirt and is only wearing normal socks. The rest of us have warm clothes, slippers and big fleece hoodies on winter evenings, and use fleece blankets to stay cosy on the sofa.

We seem to be in a battle of wills. He goes along with my suggested times and temperatures in discussion but has done everything including claiming his radiator and the TRV don't work, disconnecting the TRV but trying to make it look as though it's connected, saying it won't connect and pulling the little pin out with a pair of pliers to force the heating on. He leaves it on all night. The thermostat when it's reading says 25-26.

The other issue in this old Victorian house is that the heating pumping out all night causes banging in the pipes and keeps myself and the other lodger awake, or wakes us up in the night. So we prefer lots of layers and a quiet night unless we're in a cold patch.

I've offered him extra duvets and blankets (his looks thin) and a hot water bottle but he refuses. I've asked him to discuss the times he wants the heating on and to talk about the heating.

He says the temperature reading is wrong so I gave him a wireless thermostat which showed the same temperature as the TRV and showed it was correct.

I've explained about the increasing cost of gas and showed him my bills. I've showed him the temperatures in the rest of the house and that we are comfortable.

This is the second winter we are having these issues. Last year his sister died so I just kept my mouth shut and left him to it but I felt really unhappy.

Do I just suck it up, winter will be over soon and I'm not making a loss. Or do I tell him it's not acceptable and ask him to leave? Or is it better the devil you know, this is the only issue.

A friend suggested a locking cover to go over the TRV, I'm so irritated it's tempting but is that really ethical? And anyway would he then just get an electric heater? I don't go into his room and I would never snoop.

He's a 44 year old man having to rent a room and it must be his sanctuary and private space.

Do I just let him win the battle and chill out?

I'm pretty sure that there isn't a single person on this thread who wants this man to be uncomfortable.

But that doesn't mean that OP should accept any or all actions he takes to to make himself comfortable in her home, regardless of whether he is paying her to stay there. This includes overriding the heating system by causing damage to her property, so that he can enjoy constant 25 degree heat in the middle of winter whilst wearing only a t-shirt, currently at OPs expense.

Normal lodger agreements tend to include something around respectful use of communcal spaces.

Variations in temperature comfort are not exactly unexpected or 'out there'. Some people put a jumper on, some people crank up the heating. If the latter annoys you then put it in the agreement. It's not complicated.

Heating at 25 degrees is pretty “out there” to me.

25 degrees is just more MN madness 🙄.

I live in an older house and 18 degrees is a very comfortable temperature.

We have several stoves which do give off a lot of heat but above 21 and doors have to be opened.

We most certainly wear cosy fleeces in the house and always have done.

25 degrees is ridiculous and expecting someone to indulge your teeshirt wearing preferences during an energy crisis is madness.

I hope you get rid of him and don't give him a reference.

His interference with your heating system is damage to your property and completely unacceptable.

To you being the operative words there.

The fact is it's pretty standard for there to be something in a lodger agreement about heating.

If a landlord states that heating is included in bills and doesn't specify a limit, sorry but that's their mistake.

A tenant moves in on the basis of unlimited heating. The landlord can't then complain when the tenant puts up the heating, because they've given them a free pass to do so.

Obviously OP now needs to take charge of this and give some notice of increasing bills, but she made a mistake from the off in not anticipating something like this.

I don't understand why he's not wearing more clothes.

I give up. No not just to me, it seems most people on this thread also think 25 is not in the range of normal. I forget on MN, no one can just be difficult, he must have some big life trauma that stops him from wearing a jumper. Heaven knows how this man leaves the house between September and May.

I've also got a lodger. I put the expected house temperature (16-20c) into the advert and the signed lodger agreement, along with a prohibition on extra electric heaters. The thermostat is set to 18C and no complaints so far this winter, as expectations have been managed from the outset.

Is he from another country? It's usually those that come from warmer climates, or who are used to very cheap heating (e.g. Ukrainians accustomed to a district heating system) that are most likely to have unrealistic expectations of how warm a home will be.

At this point in time it sounds like relations have broken down to such an extent that giving him his months notice is probably the only way forward. There's a great deal of demand for housing at the minute; you'll probably find it quite easy to find someone new.

@ElephantInTheKitchen I know you have the thermostat set at 18 degrees. But I wonder if your contract would be legal as WHO say the minimum temperature for good health is 18 degrees, not 16 degrees?

If you can show me where it's illegal for a live in landlord, I'll change my contract...

There are very few requirements upon live in landlords by the way; a gas safety certificate is required but many of the other usual requirements simply don't apply - for instance, there's no need to protect the deposit, nor go to court as part of an eviction process.

Why would WHO guidance be UK law?

There is no UK law but a room has to be fit for human habitation. If you were taken to court a lodger could win on the basis that you are providing a room dangerous to health.

Dangerous? We're not talking arctic conditions here

No we are not. But WHO say that a house should be at a minimum of18 degrees in the day and that consistently lower is damaging to health long term. I would call that dangerous.

Dangerous? 16C? Come off it. That's the minimum recommended temperature for an office according to the HSE.
www.hse.gov.uk/temperature/employer/the-law.htm

Just to humour you, I've just gone and checked the rules and regs of the most relevant bit of legislation (which doesn't apply to live in landlords anyway). It doesn't specify a minimum temperature.
www.gov.wales/fitness-homes-human-habitation-guidance-landlords-html

The 16 degrees is for working indoors, not just offices. Shops, etc.

The World Health Organisation states UK households should have a room temperature in winter that's a few degrees above that, at around 18C, to keep a "well-dressed person" healthy. The Energy Saving Trust advises that you should set your thermostat to the lowest comfortable temperature and says families should aim for around 18-21C.
A study by housing expert Richard Moore found a shocking link between housing temperatures and the risk of major health conditions:
24C+ – Cardiovascular risk of strokes and heart attacks
21-24C – Increasing discomfort
18-21C – Comfortable temperatures
16-18C – Discomfort, small health risks
12-16C – Risk of respiratory diseases
9-12C – Risk of strokes, heart attacks
<9°C – Risk of hypothermia

You are very insistent that people can just go to court and win for all sorts of grievances. Do you have any legal experience/expertise?

People can go to court for any reason they want.
I am saying that someone may be able to gob to court for this reason and may win. Personally I would always be wary of putting non standard conditions in a contract or tenancy agreement without legal advice.

So OP was wrong not to put a temperature range in the agreement but also could be wrong for specifying a temperature range in the agreement.

24C+ – Cardiovascular risk of strokes and heart attacks
21-24C – Increasing discomfort

So by keeping the heating at 18-21 degrees the OP has been saving her lodger from increasing discomfort and then possible cardiovascular disease. Seems she was right all along, according to the WHO.

Courts really do prefer that you have some sort of legal basis on which to back it up, else you tend to get laughed out of court and / or labelled a vexatious litigant.

As I said earlier, please provide a specific bit of legislation which specifies a minimum temperature for a live in landlord and their lodger.

I've been upfront with my lodger about what to expect, and have stuck to that. It allowed them to decide in advance if they were comfortable with a 16-20C house; it was my intention to put off anyone with unrealistic expectations. The OP is a good example of what happens when people have unrealistic expectations.

I've rented myself for many years and I can assure you that the room I'm renting out is higher quality than most of the places I've lived in as a tenant. There's no damp, for starters!

Do you have links?

@WorriedWarrier I was quoting Bradford girl. Ask her.