WIBU to get involved with schools disciplinary process?

[throwawayname00]

Long story short.
Last term in my DS8 and a bunch of boys in his class were involved in some bullying of another child. it was reported and dealt with by the school.

Parents were called, kids were talked to and for the rest of that school term the 'bullying' boys were not allowed to play together. I personally felt that was a bit OTT but went with it.

We've gone back to school this term and DS has come home saying he still isn't allowed to play with the other boys, they are all being kept apart during class times, lunch times and play times.
And this was announced to them all by the teacher in front of the whole class with her saying "XYZ, you still aren't allowed to play together because I still can't trust you"

I'm intending to speak to the teacher at pick up or maybe just email the school directly.
I feel this has been dragged from one term into another by the teacher, i feel they were spoken to by teachers, head teacher and parents. They were kept apart for 2/3 weeks last term and it could have been left there.
And calling them out like that in front of their peer group is awful IMO.

I want to use this thread to check myself before I go in guns blazing.
WIBU to step in at this point?

If school and parent(s) have acted quickly and in a positive way to resolve the situation put in a plan to resolve, delivered plan, then shouldn't the situation be resolved?

Well, the school has clearly put a plan in place. One that lasts for longer than a couple of weeks, because change takes longer than that. OP doesn't appear to have learned anything from events though, so we can't say they've acted in a positive way to resolve anything.

Based on the OP, clearly DS’s behaviour has shown that he hasn’t changed and has continued to behave inappropriately. “Remaining vigilant” doesn’t mean quietly watching while they bully him again, it means looking for inappropriate behaviour and stepping in before they bully this child again.

I think bullying was too strong a word tbh, between these boys the other kids coat was hidden, his lunch box thrown across the hall, he was chased around the playground

Bullying is exactly the right word. That’s horrible behaviour and cruel to pick on another child like that. I can’t believe you think it’s ok. Either your son is an instigator of the bullying or he’s being lead astray by the other boys. If it’s the former, then it’s right he’s kept away from the other boys, and if it’s the latter then it’s right too because it will protect him from being led into poor decisions.

I completely understand why the teacher mentioned it in class. It wasn’t done in a mean way, it was done factually. That often happens - factual comments being made about children eg child asks to go to the toilet, teacher says he can’t be trusted as he misbehaved and turned the taps on last time. It’s also making it clear to the rest of the class that such bullying is unacceptable, and alerting them to watch out for the other child being bullied again.

You should accept that your son did bully, and explain to him why it’s so wrong, and why he’s not being trusted with the other boys. You could also discuss peer pressure and not being led astray. You should be thanking the school not complaining!

OP, you really need to stop minimising your son’s bullying. It’s not that much of a surprise he’s bullying others if this is your response tbh.

Be grateful that the school has separated him from friends, with whom he does wrong things.

The school sounds ace.

It’s nice to see a school actually deal with bullying in a practical sense, others could take note.

Separating the children probably isn't being done as punishment though, that would be keeping them in at break etc. I am sure the children are all lovely individually, but are bringing out the worst in each other - the solution to that is keeping them apart so they can form new, more positive friendships

Prioritise teaching your child values that deter him from being a bully. It will be easier than reforming the school disciplinary policy as an external individual.

Don’t be ridiculous. If you bully people then you’re a bully. If you shoot people then you’re a shooter. If you help people then you’re a helper. People are defined by their actions, and rightly so. If OP wants her DS to be something other than a bully she needs to teach him that his behaviour wasn’t acceptable rather than that he did nothing wrong and should feel free to carry on. If and when his behaviour changes, he’ll become a “former bully”.

Seems like a lot of bullies on here as well
They are 8 years old and still learning boundaries and Op said the other boy stole lunchboxes etc first
OP go in and speak to the school, just in a nice way and ask what the plan is long term.
They may explain why they are still keeping separate maybe they are seeing signs all is not resolved or want to give it a bit longer or feel the friendship group is not great in other ways tpo, they may of seen an uptick in learning etc
You have a right to go in and ask what the plan is for your child
They are still kids , all grown women writing off 8 year olds as almost bully for life for one situation isn't great behaviour either

I disagree, children are not defined by their behaviour

I dread to think what op thinks constitutes real bullying if those behaviours her son admits to didn't make the mark.

Very few eight year olds have the capacity to even think of much nastier behaviour than those listed. If they were setting his hair alight (like what happened to my bf in secondary) I'd consider them psychopathic, but op would probably write it off as creative thinking or something.

Oh the victim had red hair too so op would probably say it was her fault for having flame coloured hair.

I think bullying was too strong a word tbh, between these boys the other kids coat was hidden, his lunch box thrown across the hall, he was chased around the playground.

bloody norah - that is fucking appalling and in your shoes I'd be questioning a) why i think that's just "bantz" and b) where my parenting went wrong that my son thinks that's ok

Your bullying son has got of lightly and you all need to think about what has happened here. This isn't about your son, it is about making the bullied child(ren) feel safe at school. They are the priority, not your bully-son.

OP have a polite and calm chat with the school. Ask for a plan and a date at which they will consider removing the sanction. Ask what your son needs to do, and then relay that firmly to him.

I believe punishment was needed and the bullied kid’s feeling come first. But even most prison sentences have an end and a better outcome would be if these boys can reflect and play together again without resuming their bullying behaviour. Just keeping them apart indefinitely doesn’t teach them that much in the long term.

Has your son apologised properly to the boy and shown remorse? I may have missed that. That would be hugely important to me as a parent.

Do you think he would repeat the behaviour if reunited with his friends?

I think the word bully has an incredibly strong, emotive effect on people. Just listen to some of the words being used on here to describle children of 7 or 8 who are still learning how to act, how to be social, where they sit in the world and what society's expectations are.
I work with children of this age and I think the best approach would be for the children to be doing some work on friendships, on feelings, on what it means to be a good friend and a bad friend. Yes, absolutely keep them apart still but not writing them all off as untrustworthy.

Read what you’ve written and imagine it being done to your son. Then imagine your son not wanting to go to school, coming home crying everyday. Asking you why they’re picking on him and not someone else.
And I’m sure there was a lot more to it - the throwing lunch boxes was probably just the most visible aspect of it.

Then think about whether or not those bullies should be allowed to form their little gang again, given that separating them from playing together has knocked the bullying on the head?

The school are doing you a favour. Your son needs different friends and/or to learn that his behaviour was NOT acceptable - which from the sounds of it he’s not really getting a home as you’re making ‘boys will be boys’ excuses for.
If your son and these other kids are such good friends then they can play together after school, weekends and holidays instead.

YABVVVVVU

Your child was involved in taking and hiding another child's stuff as well as damaging it and you're upset your son and the other bullies are being kept apart? Jesus.

Anyone else old enough to remember the days when if you got in trouble at school and your parents got wind of it, you would get a thick ear from them ?
Nowadays the parents are storming down to school demanding apologies etc cos someone had the temerity to tell their little darling off.
And people wonder why teachers are leaving the profession in droves?

I would leave the school for now and focus on support for your DS. "The school are concerned that if you, A, B and C get together again at lunchtime, you'll muck around together and other people might get hurt, like happened before. If you're not playing with A, B or C at lunchtime, who else is around that you can play with?" would be a good place to start.

Can you invite any other possible new friends roundfor a playdate outside of school?

If you want to approach the school, I'd do it in the frame of "telling this group to keep apart in front of their peers flagged to other pupils that they behave poorly and limits DS's chance of making other friends away from this group", so it's not "my DS can't play with his mates 'cause you're stopping him", more "I get why they can't be together but your action hasn't helped DS move on" which isn't quite where you're coming from at the moment. Your OP was very focused on "my son should be able to meeet with his friends again" and that's not going to happen, realistically.

Good, the school are handling it in the right way. Priority has to be the victim not the bullies. It's best it's tackled now otherwise your child will be spending lots of time in isolation if it carries on the secondary school.

My son wet himself at nursery when he was 4 because he was too busy playing.

Does this make him a wetter? Or did he learn that when you need the toilet you have to stop what you are doing and go? Should he be labelled a wetter for life?

I think people who give labels to a children they don't know on the internet might be bullies.

@throwawayname00 hmmm was his father violent or manipulative before the breakdown of your relationship? I take it there must have been some level of adverse behaviours as he isn’t allowed to contact you. I’d be trying to encourage him with positive male friends of the same age. Also has he an older male influence in his life? I don’t mean to go overboard but you need to nip this in the bud now. By the time he is 13 your son could easily be physically bigger and you’ll have completely lost control of his behaviour. This is serious and you need to treat it as such. Focus on why your son thought this was ok rather than tackling the school’s policy.
As for not punishing a child continuously, give me a break. It’s in no one’s interest, including themselves, that these children play together, that’s just the way it is. They will soon find other friends.

Then we’ll have to agree to disagree on that. Lord knows what on earth you think a bully is if it’s not someone who bullies people but hey ho. I bet you don’t take issue with people who define your DCs by their positive behaviours - would you tell your child that they aren’t friendly just because their behaviour is friendly? Would you tell them that they aren’t hardworking just because they work hard?

The reports of the bullying are all from the bullied kid. No staff saw it happening or intervened until the kids mum said something.

Come on!

You are saying that nobody every saw anything at all but the school has come down on this group of boys like a tonne of bricks despite this?

If that is what you actually believe, then you have failed as a parent by not removing your child from the school immediately.

The minute they told you that they had not seen any bullying and nor had any other adult and none of the other children had seen a thing despite numerous incidents but they were going to punish a whole group of children regardless then you should have run like the wind as clearly the school is run by lunatics.

They must have some sort of delusional agenda to do this and the head and the teachers must all be in cahoots because in an ordinary school one of the adults would have said something.

The thing is, OP, this is not about continually punishing your child. It is about preventing any recurrence of the same problem or something similar. The school has clearly decided that, on the basis of what they know, the dynamic between these particular children is toxic when they are allowed to play together, so it is best for everyone if they are kept apart.

The bullied child has a right to be protected from any further issues. Other children who could also become targets also need to be protected. And frankly, the bullies themselves need to be protected from the negative influence that they clearly have on each other.

The behaviour that you have described is definitely bullying and that certainly isn't too strong a term for it. It sounds horrible and would have been very damaging for the other child. Unlike some on this thread, however, I don't think that makes your son a bad person or a bully for life. He is still very young and still has plenty of time to turn things around, but he needs to be given a proper chance to do so, as do the other bullies, by keeping him away from children who clearly don't play nicely together.

Try to shift your perspective on this. Your ds needs to learn not to engage in this kind of behaviour ever again. The school are helping him to learn this by making the gravity of the situation clear to him and by keeping him away from others who might lead him astray.

If the teacher says they don’t trust them yet then they don’t, and it’s up to a teacher to manage a class.
speak to your son and explain to him that he needs to earn his teachers trust. He broke it, and if he wants to play with his little gang again they all need to prove they won’t be little shits together.