School residential, school have said they have to go

[Y4GoingAway]

School Year 4, but it’s a first school so the final year at the school.

Apparently it’s compulsory and there is no provision in school for those who don’t go as the class teachers plus several other staff go.

I don’t want DD to go. She has a genetic condition that affects her muscles and joints. She also has an EHCP due to SN (not ASD)

The trip is canoeing and rock climbing and zip lining and orienteering. Which all sound great but schools only adjustment for DDs condition is she can sit out if she wants to, which she won’t because she never does for Forest School or PE or anything else physical, school say they cannot force DD to sit out. They have PE, Forest School and the morning mile in one day at school and DDs generally screaming in pain by 2pm, I’ve asked for her to sit out of Forest School and the mile but been told that it’s up to DD to decide and she wants to be like her friends so will push herself until she can’t cope anymore – she’s missed school the next day because of the pain and school just shrug and say she needs to tell them when she wants to sit out, while in the next breath saying she seems to refuse to acknowledge her condition as she won’t talk about it!

This isn’t about DD being away overnight, she stays away from me with ExH EOWend for 1 night and he usually takes her away for 3-4 days in the summer holidays plus she’s just done a 3 day pack holiday with Brownies. Also it’s not a cost thing, the trip itself is free, we’re being asked to donate to transport there and back either by paying school for the bus or getting our DC there ourselves.
Brownies where brilliant, they let her choose one active activity per day and then put her in the group that wasn’t doing that activity after she’d done it, so she did crafts or similar, all the girls where given the same opportunity to sit out so no-one knew why DD only did 1 per day – and we’ve agreed that next time she goes she’ll do different activities so she’s tried different things which is a great compromise. Brownies also kept her topped up on her pain medication which school refuse to give her.

They’ve told me they have no provision for giving pain relief on the trip which is the same in school. They’ve also said if children sit out of an activity they will just have to watch everyone else do it, there’s no staffing for them to have a group at the centre they’re staying in doing something else – I even said DD would be happy to do worksheets or similar.

And before anyone says “But there’s more going with school” there’s the same number at Brownies and Brownies had a bigger age range as school only take the 90 year 4s, whereas Brownies had 60 Brownies (7-10 year olds), 30 guides (10-14 year olds), and a couple of Rainbows (7 year olds) who’re ready to move to Brownies soon.

School have said if she doesn’t go they will not be providing alternative work, she will be the only one in her entire year not going and she will be supervised by “whichever member off staff is free”. She does have 1-1 TA for parts of the day and one of her two 1-1s won’t be going and I’ve offered to get her tutor she has outside of school to provide work (tutor has already offered) and I’ve been told again the trip is compulsory. Apparently they've never had anyone not go ever.

So AIBU and just have to suck it up? The trip is after half term.

@Quinoawoman Yes but school have said they will only adminster any medication if it has to be given 5 or more times a day. If it's 4 or less it can be worked around the school day even if that means waking the child in the night even if it's regular medication they take.

Yeah but their refusal is negatively affecting her health and attendance. Case closed as far as I'm concerned.

Reading through other comments, I can see why you don't want to move her for the sake of 6 months but I would definitely complain now. IMO they can't treat her, or you, any worse than they currently are.

Let me be really clear - having a child screaming in pain at 2pm and refusing to give prescribed medication is cruel. Child abuse. Any teacher or school leader should be held accountable for refusing to do so. Please complain now. If it were me, I would be getting legal advice.

‘Extreme’ my kids do this type of stuff all the time, it might be extreme for a child that only sits on their laptop, but I really don’t think these outdoor activities are ‘extreme’. It’s a shame a it’s clear the child really wants to do it and she should be allowed but there should also be a member of staff around to supervise her.

this is perverse. if a medication is needed for pain management then it's needed every 4 hours throughout waking hours. waking a sleeping child who is not currently in pain because they aren't moving at all because they are asleep is no substitute for giving the required medication during the school day when it is actually needed.

I'm a business manager in a school, they cannot force your child to go against your wishes. The school seem to be acting quite unreasonable. In my school we usually place a child in the next class below for the week, let the child spend some time in Year R as most like helping the younger ones and do a few fun activities to make up for missing the week. E.g baking, cinema or bowling. But all schools are incredibly short of money, they would not be able to pay for an extra teacher. A supply teacher would cost around 1k for the week.

I agree with another poster that if you can have time off work you might be able to stay with DD instead of her going on the resi. However, I feel that school should have some flexibility built into their system to accommodate children who will struggle hugely with the resi, which is what appears to be your DD's situation. The lack of flexibility could be a disability discrimination issue I believe.

One thing I would add is the medicine rules on school trips are not the same as a regular school day and more like Brownies. You can put on the trip form that they take pain medication as required, or schools often will administer Calpol if you've given consent on the trip form.

@Y4GoingAway I don't know if you saw my post or my private message to you. I think you need to contact your child's EHCP caseworker for advice and look at an emergency review so that the school make the reasonable adjustments necessary.

They also need to do a full risk assessment taking into account your child's needs and how they will meet them on an activity based residential trip.

I took a CF child on an outdoor adventure trip while on intravenous antibiotics three times a day, ok, I gave those meds as it's not possible for the teachers to have that level of skill, but in November, rock scrambling, climbing, canoeing etc, the school managed it appropriately without tiring him, making him feel left out or messing up his IV line! They have a duty of care to include your child APPROPRIATELY, not exclude or bully or ignore her needs, she has a whole life ahead of her where she'll face discrimination, she doesn't need to learn it at school. Speak to the governors, particularly if you think there could be repercussions from a complaint, or, in this case, a request for appropriate non- discriminatory treatment. If the school genuinely can't cope, possible these days, then an honest acknowledgement of this would help you manage the situation.

@Zonder Yes I saw them, I have no idea who my DDs caseworker is at it keeps changing but I will try and contact someone tomorrow.

Well your DD is on the trip I would get your GP to give a prescription of x times per day pain relief and they will have to administer it. Goodness knows how they'd deal with a newly diagnosed pupil with diabetes or many other conditions including asthma

I haven't read all responses to the thread, so apologies if I am duplicating what others have said. An inhaler is prescribed 'as required' - would they refuse to administer that to a child who couldn't breathe?! It is very similar in that it is medication required on an ad hoc basis potentially triggered by external factors. Their policy is nonsensical and probably in breach of their duty of care.

I would be complaining to the board of governors and ofsted.
They cannot make it compulsory.
Keep her home. Get a doctors letter is necessary.
School sounds vile. Bullies.

There are times when, as a parent, you have to make decisions for your child - especially when it comes to future consequences. As a person with a genetic condition that also affects my joints, and many other things, please don't put her in a position where she is trying not to scream in pain, without any adult support or backup with no way to escape.

Personally I would keep her home but the school is being awful, have you been in contact with sendiass? I would be taking this further as its very discriminatory and not at all inclusive, they have a duty of care to make sure your daughter isn't hurting herself.

Is there a school nurse?
Could occupational health give the school recommendations?
What does her EHCP say about exercise and exertion?

I hope you find something to help you get school sorted for your little one xx

Update.

It's not the news I or DD wanted.

She's not going.

Had a meeting with Senco, Head of KS2, Physio and myself last week. After the centre came back and said they could support her needs. They could offer more supportive harnesses for things like climbing and ziplining (I thought this might be the case as there's a wall climbing centre nearby we go to regularly and as long as I let them know in advance they can provide the more supportive harness) and also that they could offer quieter sit down activities like route planning and map reading as well as taking the pressure off in other ways. Even with this Physio and I still wanted school to provide pain relief even if it was the start and end of each day.

Senco tried to persuade the HofKS2 to give the pain relief, physio with backing of GP was happy to put it on prescription just for the duration of the trip but the HofKS2 kept saying he didn't want to be responsible and as he's the lead teacher for the trip it was in the end his call. HofKS2 said that all DC had to take part in all activities and they cannot change the activities they've done every year for the past 8 years (bar covid years obviously) just because 1 child needs something different and it's entirely appropriate apparently for DD to be expected to manage herself and sit out if she needs it - she won't though which is what both me and Physio tried to say. Physio actually said "I've known (DD) since she was 4, she is one who will push herself to injury if not made to stop" but HofKS2 just shrugged. He did admit that there have been DC that haven't been in the past though.

Physio kept asking what they'd do if a diabetic or asthmatic child (DD is also asthmatic but isn't on steriod inhalers currently) attended and needed more regular medication and HofKS2 basically said he'd expect the child to be able to handle it themselves as he was not taking responsibility - the DC are at most 9 years old, I don't know many 9 year olds who could entirely manage their own insulin or inhalers.

A chat with both Sendias and the Council education department told me that school cannot be expected to be responsible for medication, even if prescribed or written into an EHCP, they cannot be forced to give regular medication - apparently it's not uncommon for schools to ask parents to come in and give insulin or similar if a member of staff at school won't take responsibility. I've never known it happen but it must do.

So we've reached an impasse. I can't get more than a day that week off and I need an undistrupted internet connection to WFH so can't even go and WFH.

I am gutted for DD, but I can't trust that she won't be in pain. Senco is arranging for DD to go in late the first day of the trip so she doesn't see her friends all going off and her missing out, and is going to try and see if DD can go into her class (Year 2) for the week. 1-1 will be provided by the 1-1 still in school for all 10 hours - apparently this is allowed as the EHCP only says 10 hours will be provided and for what subjects, it doesn't state who will be providing it other than the school i.e. no member of staff is specifically named.

While you can’t insist a member of staff gives medication the school have a legal obligation to them supply a teacher that is willing to. Your council is wrong. They can not exclude her this way. Disgusting

childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/supporting-children-with-medical-needs-in-schools/

@T1Dmama The issue wasn't that no-one would take responsibility, the 1-1 TA that is going is happy to give it it's that the lead teacher who is running the trip won't take overall responsibility for it, which he cannot be forced to do and as it's up to him unless I can go DD can't safely either. I can't go so neither can DD.

@T1Dmama From what I can gather because he's also saying he wouldn't take responsibility for any medication it's not discrimmination as it's not just DD who'd possibly be unable to go. It's just because I'm a single parent and can't afford unpaid leave that I can't go.

Sendias is not independent. The advice is wrong.

please contact ipsea and make a formal discrimination complaint.

@niugboo I will be once DD leaves the school at the end of this school year. It won't make a difference to whether I send her or not now, she's not going. HofKS2 has said he does not want the responsibility and I'd rather not force him to as then theres more likely to be a mistake which could affect DD.

I am asking around on the class and year group Facebook groups about if anyone else isn't going though, and if they're in the other classes hopefully can meet up between now and the trip so DD at least feels like she has someone familar for the week.

I'm really sorry that you and DD are being treated like this. I cannot believe the attitude of the teacher. This would NEVER happen in my school or any trip I'm in charge of. I assume you've had discussions with her next school around her needs?