School residential, school have said they have to go

[Y4GoingAway]

School Year 4, but it’s a first school so the final year at the school.

Apparently it’s compulsory and there is no provision in school for those who don’t go as the class teachers plus several other staff go.

I don’t want DD to go. She has a genetic condition that affects her muscles and joints. She also has an EHCP due to SN (not ASD)

The trip is canoeing and rock climbing and zip lining and orienteering. Which all sound great but schools only adjustment for DDs condition is she can sit out if she wants to, which she won’t because she never does for Forest School or PE or anything else physical, school say they cannot force DD to sit out. They have PE, Forest School and the morning mile in one day at school and DDs generally screaming in pain by 2pm, I’ve asked for her to sit out of Forest School and the mile but been told that it’s up to DD to decide and she wants to be like her friends so will push herself until she can’t cope anymore – she’s missed school the next day because of the pain and school just shrug and say she needs to tell them when she wants to sit out, while in the next breath saying she seems to refuse to acknowledge her condition as she won’t talk about it!

This isn’t about DD being away overnight, she stays away from me with ExH EOWend for 1 night and he usually takes her away for 3-4 days in the summer holidays plus she’s just done a 3 day pack holiday with Brownies. Also it’s not a cost thing, the trip itself is free, we’re being asked to donate to transport there and back either by paying school for the bus or getting our DC there ourselves.
Brownies where brilliant, they let her choose one active activity per day and then put her in the group that wasn’t doing that activity after she’d done it, so she did crafts or similar, all the girls where given the same opportunity to sit out so no-one knew why DD only did 1 per day – and we’ve agreed that next time she goes she’ll do different activities so she’s tried different things which is a great compromise. Brownies also kept her topped up on her pain medication which school refuse to give her.

They’ve told me they have no provision for giving pain relief on the trip which is the same in school. They’ve also said if children sit out of an activity they will just have to watch everyone else do it, there’s no staffing for them to have a group at the centre they’re staying in doing something else – I even said DD would be happy to do worksheets or similar.

And before anyone says “But there’s more going with school” there’s the same number at Brownies and Brownies had a bigger age range as school only take the 90 year 4s, whereas Brownies had 60 Brownies (7-10 year olds), 30 guides (10-14 year olds), and a couple of Rainbows (7 year olds) who’re ready to move to Brownies soon.

School have said if she doesn’t go they will not be providing alternative work, she will be the only one in her entire year not going and she will be supervised by “whichever member off staff is free”. She does have 1-1 TA for parts of the day and one of her two 1-1s won’t be going and I’ve offered to get her tutor she has outside of school to provide work (tutor has already offered) and I’ve been told again the trip is compulsory. Apparently they've never had anyone not go ever.

So AIBU and just have to suck it up? The trip is after half term.

It’s unlawful what they’re doing.

They have to provide education. Really simple.

My daughter has a physical condition, pain meds were written in to the health part of her ehcp
Her meds had to be prescribed, including paracetamol and worded as to be given 4 hourly as required
So if I gave it at home I would let them know and the count down would begin
Some times her TA would insist I be called because she wasn't coping before times up
Physio used to go in and work with her and show staff exercises to do daily with her, helped staff get their heads round her realities and what to do to help as sometimes parents can be brushed off as over protective where as professionals tend to be listened closer to
We gave up school trips after one short two day local trip as they couldn't manage all her care

I don’t usually comment but this is so wrong. I am a retired HT and was also SENDCo and feel, how you have described it, that school are being very unhelpful. Usually schools will go out of their way to accommodate and support chn with SEN. Chn with SEN are entitled to access full curriculum, including educational visits, even it if it is hard at times. Chn should have the level of support they have in school or take parent along. (10 hours = about 2 days or 4 morning) Maybe child could just go just for day or go for certain activities (does depend on how far away residential is).
However, if your child doesn’t go, they may have to join another class with any TA support they have. This is common practice and child takes part in lessons of class they are joining, teacher cannot be expected to set additional work. (Residential are not a holiday for teachers.)
Teaching staff can not be made to give medication (union advice). However, first-aiders will usually give medication.
Most authorities have support groups for parents of chn with SEN. You should seek advice from them and, if need be, take them with you to meeting. They usually know all the legalities.
Also remember if you decide to keep her off school, you could end up being fined.

My daughter just learnt to chew at the age of 8. Lots of various sensitivities in the mouth. She will starve if I'm not with her for a day, leave alone days and nights. Therefore she won't be going to any residential, plus she adamantly doesn't want to go. I live in a democracy so....

The school should be making reasonable adjustments for your DD's SEN especially as she has an EHCP. My DS broke his collarbone and went on a PGL type residential with school and they managed his pain medication and made reasonable adjustments. I would make a written request for all the adjustments you expect and your DD requires. If you have no luck then escalate it higher (governors then MAT or LA etc)

Of course she doesn't have to go. Tell them to sod off.

Your daughter. Your decision. Keep her at home.When are local authorities going to learn what fits some doesn't fit all especially if not adjusting anything for her. Keep her home. Have a good day out the both of you

Teacher here - working in SEND.
To the best of my knowledge no trip can be made compulsory - it just can't. Also they have a legal duty to provide education for your child, so if she doesn't attend the trip you are not obligated to have anyone provide her with work - it is their legal duty.
I would recommend that if the discussions you have already had are with the HT, then go directly to the chair of governors and state your concerns.
On a side note, I find it appalling that school have also failed to make any reasonable adjustments to accommodate your DDs condition on a day to day basis. Something as simple as ensuring that Forest School and PE fall on different days, or having the daily mile incorporated as a part of their PE lesson on that day, or having PE towards the end of the day so she can come home and rest afterwards. None of things are difficult to do, none of them cost anything and all of them create a non-disciminatory environment for your child.
I'd use this terminology (reasonable adjustments, protected characteristic, discriminatory) in your communication to governors, and I would go so far as to say that by failing to do so they are in fact discriminating against her on the basis of a protected characteristic if her condition falls under the bracket of disability. Frankly I find their attitude deplorable.

I think that the compromise should be around working with school and your dd in advance to discuss which activities she will do and which she will sit out for part of the time. I guess she could maybe do part of some (e.g canoe for 30 mins and then rest for 30 mins) and then have rest periods. They should certainly be willing to give pain meds. Could you arrange for doctor to prescribe or write a letter giving instructions to staff.
I think that having activities back at the centre for her will be difficult as the other children won't want to sit out and I am guessing your dd would not be happy about doing these activities without her friends.

Ask the school about working together on a risk assessment for your dd to attend. It won't be like the brownies trip but they should be able to come up with something that could work. Your dd will however have to accept that there will be some limitations on her. The school will not make up a new activity for all the students in order to trick her into thinking she is not missing out. If the agreement is a set amount of activity and rest periods then she will have to accept that from the staff.

A school trip that's completely unsuitable for your child due to their disabilities? No. That's absolutely not compulsory. Use the words 'duty of care' when they say they can't/won't provide her with school/activities for the week.

Not the point of this thread but are 4 night/5 day residentials common for year 4 kids? Not sure how my DC would feel about being away this long at that age.

Completely agree with writing to the HT and Chair of Governors. It's the governors' job to challenge the practices within the school and ensure staff are adhering to policy.

Wow I'm a bit staggered you're so keen for her to go when school clearly have no interest in her well-being and have seemingly done nothing to speak of in terms of reasonable adjustments for her condition.

I understand you want her to have the opportunity to share the experience with her friends but from your posts I would say it's just not suitable. The degree of physical activity required and schools unwillingness to administer pain relief when required.
Regardless of school saying it's compulsory.
It isn't. There is no way of making it legally compulsory for them to have your child for 4 nights. I'm certain they'll require you to sign to give permission for her to attend.
And although they've said it's free, it's still costing you for transport, either paying them or parents transporting, so it does cost you. Either money, or time and fuel, therefore money still.

If it was for 1 night, sure, risk it.
But what is schools plan when your dd is in pain?
Will they be calling you to administer pain relief or fetch dd? Or just leaving her suffering? And having no choice but to soldier on and make herself worse or then needing her to sit out? By herself or with a member of staff?

They seem wholly unprepared to deal with your dds condition.
I'd be glad she only has 6 months left at this school. They still should be doing a hell of a lot better than they are for her though.

No such thing as compulsory residential . The school is lying . She will have no school but she can stay home

Me too DMW60!
And I couldn't have put it better 😀

She won't fail her GCSE's if she doesn't go. They can't make her. Keep her home.

The school's management of your Dds condition is appalling. Of course she can't pace herself at age 8/9! And the lack of medication is shocking.
Unless they improve 10 fold in a short space of time (unlikely)it could be a big risk

As it's term time have you considered booking a holiday together and making the most of term time prices instead? You could have a different adventure instead

You need to look up the law around disability discrimination (2010)
schools HAVE TO make
reasonable adjustments for
children with disabilities, this includes handling and administering medication!! My daughter is diabetic and would die if they refused to administer medication!! Allowing a child to be in agony is an absolute disgrace!!
Does your daughter have a careplan?? If you write in the careplan that she needs medication at midday or with her linch then they are legally obliged to follow that careplan! Also if you write in it that she can do PE but not a mile forest walk in the same day, they will also have to respect that!
As for the school trip, nothing off school site is compulsory! They can not force any parent to send their child on an overnight trip, whether it’s free or not!! Just simply tell them that they can’t legally insist on this and also legally have to provide an education to every child that is unable to go! The school is breaking the disability discrimination law on so many levels and are talking BS about the trip being compulsory!
My daughter’s school had a residential trip in year 6… a week away…. I declined to send her and instead my mum and I took her and the dogs away somewhere instead, we had a great week swimming, walking and hiring out go-karts… she didn’t feel deprived at all…
maybe keep her off and have days out or something?? You’ll also be surprised how many other parents refuse to send their kids in this trip!

Could you get a special prescription for the trip for her pain meds to be given at set times/times intervals? They would have no grounds to refuse to give it to her then.

You shouldn't need to do that but if that would make it work for her...

Is this a mainstream school? She would have to be part of the risk assessment surely? I'd take this to governors along the lines of discrimination.

I just cannot believe that the trip could be compulsory... she should at the very least be able to go into another class.

If she can't go, you say "School have said if she doesn’t go they will not be providing alternative work, she will be the only one in her entire year not going and she will be supervised by “whichever member off staff is free”."

That's not making the trip compulsory. I know children in year 6 who haven't gone on school trips due to SEN. She wouldn't be the only child not to go

Simple answer is they have no control over what your child does outside of school hours and so it isn't compulsory.

I wouldn't bother arguing or meeting with them, I'd simply inform them your child won't be going, repeat as needed.

Awful school, how are they making reasonable adjustments or taking your DDs condition into account?

I'd consider another school or having a very frank conversation with them, the Senco and local authority representative or chair of the governors.

There's no such thing as a compulsory school trip. Especially during half term when school is closed. I would take this higher because it sounds like her needs are met even on a basic day.

*aren't