School residential, school have said they have to go

[Y4GoingAway]

School Year 4, but it’s a first school so the final year at the school.

Apparently it’s compulsory and there is no provision in school for those who don’t go as the class teachers plus several other staff go.

I don’t want DD to go. She has a genetic condition that affects her muscles and joints. She also has an EHCP due to SN (not ASD)

The trip is canoeing and rock climbing and zip lining and orienteering. Which all sound great but schools only adjustment for DDs condition is she can sit out if she wants to, which she won’t because she never does for Forest School or PE or anything else physical, school say they cannot force DD to sit out. They have PE, Forest School and the morning mile in one day at school and DDs generally screaming in pain by 2pm, I’ve asked for her to sit out of Forest School and the mile but been told that it’s up to DD to decide and she wants to be like her friends so will push herself until she can’t cope anymore – she’s missed school the next day because of the pain and school just shrug and say she needs to tell them when she wants to sit out, while in the next breath saying she seems to refuse to acknowledge her condition as she won’t talk about it!

This isn’t about DD being away overnight, she stays away from me with ExH EOWend for 1 night and he usually takes her away for 3-4 days in the summer holidays plus she’s just done a 3 day pack holiday with Brownies. Also it’s not a cost thing, the trip itself is free, we’re being asked to donate to transport there and back either by paying school for the bus or getting our DC there ourselves.
Brownies where brilliant, they let her choose one active activity per day and then put her in the group that wasn’t doing that activity after she’d done it, so she did crafts or similar, all the girls where given the same opportunity to sit out so no-one knew why DD only did 1 per day – and we’ve agreed that next time she goes she’ll do different activities so she’s tried different things which is a great compromise. Brownies also kept her topped up on her pain medication which school refuse to give her.

They’ve told me they have no provision for giving pain relief on the trip which is the same in school. They’ve also said if children sit out of an activity they will just have to watch everyone else do it, there’s no staffing for them to have a group at the centre they’re staying in doing something else – I even said DD would be happy to do worksheets or similar.

And before anyone says “But there’s more going with school” there’s the same number at Brownies and Brownies had a bigger age range as school only take the 90 year 4s, whereas Brownies had 60 Brownies (7-10 year olds), 30 guides (10-14 year olds), and a couple of Rainbows (7 year olds) who’re ready to move to Brownies soon.

School have said if she doesn’t go they will not be providing alternative work, she will be the only one in her entire year not going and she will be supervised by “whichever member off staff is free”. She does have 1-1 TA for parts of the day and one of her two 1-1s won’t be going and I’ve offered to get her tutor she has outside of school to provide work (tutor has already offered) and I’ve been told again the trip is compulsory. Apparently they've never had anyone not go ever.

So AIBU and just have to suck it up? The trip is after half term.

An overnight trip where a child is denied pain medication is crap.

What would they do with a child with diabetes?

You have to make 'reasonable adjustments', that would be having a 1-1 who can administer meds and limiting activities, if they can't do that then she can't go on the trip.

If it was me and I was at home of had a day off I'd take her out and do something similar with her.

Gosh, the school are being really unhelpful and I say this as someone who ran primary school residential visits for many years. Firstly, there is absolutely no reason why they cannot administer any necessary medication. We always made sure that at least one member of staff going was trained to do this, usually it was most of the staff but we always specifically named a staff member to be in charge of medication. Secondly ,I fail to see why your daughter should just have to sit out when she can't manage. They know the issues in advance and should be able to plan for them. If they don't, then it certainly sounds like disability discrimination to me. The school should have an EVC (external visits co-ordinator) I would ask to see them to discuss how your child's needs could be met and then escalate from there if needs be.

You can pretty much guarantee she is going to need the pain medication and even predict what and when based on the plan, right? You should get her doctor to make a very short term adjustment to her dosing, just for the duration of this trip, that puts her on a specific schedule for the medication.

we have to increase DD’s asthma medication for days like this. Even though we knew how to do it based on the doctors general instructions, Her doctor never had a problem writing something up if the school was being difficult.

You know, the more i think about this, the angrier I'm getting on your behalf! I believe passionately in the benefits of residential visits and also that reasonable adjustments should be made so that every child should be able to go on one if they want to. We made so many adjustments for children over the years, from children who wet the bed, to children with broken limbs, to children with behavioural difficulties, children with autism, a child undergoing cancer treatment - you name it, we adjusted for it! It is not difficult and no child should be made to sit out activities when the issues are known and can be planned for. When we took the child with cancer, the first thing I did was to talk to the centre to discuss how the physical activities could be made less fatiguing and where possible, those options were offered to all the children in the group. So, you contacting the residential centre might be a good idea. We then shared the timetable with the parent so that suitable breaks could be planned for. Also, the leader of the group that particular child was in took along something fun to do in their backpack, like a simple craft activity in case the pupil did have to sit out. We also appointed the pupil as official photographer - they had a whale of a time photographing and videoing activities when they needed a break. On occasion we also took volunteers with us so that we were in effect over staffed and that meant we had more flexibility. We had parent volunteers, student volunteers who had previously done teaching practice with us, even some of our governors volunteered. I can see that not all schools would be comfortable with this, it worked for us though. If there's a will, there's a way, as the Brownies residential proved and its just not right to not accommodate your child's needs. Rant over!!

Teacher here - I’m certain the government introduced a policy that meant all trips are voluntary. This means you can say no and simply not let your child go. It’s because schools can’t ask for money from parents or something (I’m not sure myself!) but ultimately it means if there is s big enough group of non attendees the trip can’t go ahead. What your school is doing is bull.

Disgusting school.

Take it higher. To governors first then if no joy to local authority. Assume this not a private school? If not I’m pretty sure they can’t insist unless they provide proper provision. Not sure what age she would be from your class description?

It’s a residential of several days not one day out

I also thought this, my son's Y4 trip was only two nights.

Although Brownie holidays were a week when I went on one (although I was 10 when I went, I joined Brownies late).

@hot2trotter have you read the thread? OP’s child wants to go.

Most schools just have yr6 leavers trip. Dd went yr 5 and 6 and was unusual.
It’s probably due to fact it’s the last year as the are a middle school area. It’s not the norm in schools that end yr 6.
Our Brownies are usually 2 nights away maximum (age 7-9)

I’m sad to see all the just keep her off as if it’s any solution.
The child wants to go.
Been on similar trip and enjoyed it plus benefitted her.
She’s 8 so fully aware of what she’s missing out on and have to deal with everything that comes with it - the funny stories etc will be brought up until they leave in 6 months time.
If the solution is just keep the disabled child off how will that help the other children in school. Mum next year just told oh the disabled kids don’t come or boy in wheelchair can sit and watch while we use his 1-1 elsewhere.

I’m so glad my dc’s primary school wasn’t like this.

Hope you get sorted op.

I would never let my child go if they’re aren’t willing to help them if/when needed, if Brownies are more than willing to accommodate her needs, why can’t they. I would be telling them there is no way that I will be sending my child away to be miserable and in pain…then I would book a holiday for the same time. Sod them, this is your child, don’t let them tell you what to do with her.

I agree @Dixiechickonhols it's a cop out.

The trip being 'compulsory' is a red herring. This is NOT the issue here. Schools can't enforce compulsory school trips, if a parent didn't want their child to go, they would go to school as normal. The real issue is the lack of provision for the OP's dd. She wants to go so her needs and medication need to be managed.

Sadly some schools do exclude kids
My youngest is now in an SEN school but before then he attended mainstream for 2 years.
They always worded it like they were helping so me keeping him home for open days, visitor days, really anything different.
Other times I've had calls after half an hour "because he's making a funny noise"
I didn't put it together until I was told to keep him home for Ofsted.
He was getting no support, non verbal and would attack anyone who got near him so they wanted to hide him. They had another child they did the same thing to

They always worded it like they were helping so me keeping him home for open days, visitor days, really anything different.

That's very sad. When we moved ds's schools one of the things that really sold me was on a tour we walked into a classroom and it was clear that a child with SEN was "having a moment". The teacher giving the tour quietly asked the class teacher if he was OK. He's fine, he just needs a few minutes but x sitting next to him is keeping an eye on him and making sure he is OK.

It was no big deal, there was no attempt to hide what was happening although I'm guessing that if our presence had caused distress we would have been ushered out, there was also provision for if a child became overwhelmed by the classroom environment where they could go if they needed to.

@Comefromaway was ‘x’ an adult or a child?!

X was a classmate

They were secondary age, not primary.

Absolutely wouldn't agree to or even tolerate this request. I'd be keeping her home and taking it further.

Would it be possible for you to go along as a helper? Are you free to go?
It might make it easier for her to join in or not if you were there as a back-up? You would be able to administer pain relief if needed also.

Usernumber463626363 What your child’s school Did is illegal! They’ve broken so many disability discrimination laws!!
They legally can not exclude a child like this…. If they are unable to support every single child’s individual needs in a trip then the whole trip is cancelled for everyone! They cannot say ‘you don’t can’t go,
or you have to come along, or he
needs collecting each night etc… each child has to be given equal opportunities…. Other parents aren’t going so they can’t ask you to… other kids aren’t expected to get picked up each night… by asking you to do these things they’ve discriminated!
If this was recent or happens again you need to complain and state that they have legal obligations before booking such trips to ensure EVERY child is accommodated for, or the trip doesn’t go ahead
for anyone…. If they don’t have enough staff then they need to employ extra staff to cover so that your sons usual 1-2-1 can still be his 1-2-1….. schools seem to get away with this too often. It’s different if they put everything in place and you chose not to send him, but legally they have to have everything in place encase he wants to go. Terrible

Speak to your local Department of education and they will confirm that you do not have to send her. They're lying and it's disgusting and very unprofessional of them.

The school are lying though. It can not be compulsory and they are being ableist. It's not good enough! 😡