School residential, school have said they have to go

[Y4GoingAway]

School Year 4, but it’s a first school so the final year at the school.

Apparently it’s compulsory and there is no provision in school for those who don’t go as the class teachers plus several other staff go.

I don’t want DD to go. She has a genetic condition that affects her muscles and joints. She also has an EHCP due to SN (not ASD)

The trip is canoeing and rock climbing and zip lining and orienteering. Which all sound great but schools only adjustment for DDs condition is she can sit out if she wants to, which she won’t because she never does for Forest School or PE or anything else physical, school say they cannot force DD to sit out. They have PE, Forest School and the morning mile in one day at school and DDs generally screaming in pain by 2pm, I’ve asked for her to sit out of Forest School and the mile but been told that it’s up to DD to decide and she wants to be like her friends so will push herself until she can’t cope anymore – she’s missed school the next day because of the pain and school just shrug and say she needs to tell them when she wants to sit out, while in the next breath saying she seems to refuse to acknowledge her condition as she won’t talk about it!

This isn’t about DD being away overnight, she stays away from me with ExH EOWend for 1 night and he usually takes her away for 3-4 days in the summer holidays plus she’s just done a 3 day pack holiday with Brownies. Also it’s not a cost thing, the trip itself is free, we’re being asked to donate to transport there and back either by paying school for the bus or getting our DC there ourselves.
Brownies where brilliant, they let her choose one active activity per day and then put her in the group that wasn’t doing that activity after she’d done it, so she did crafts or similar, all the girls where given the same opportunity to sit out so no-one knew why DD only did 1 per day – and we’ve agreed that next time she goes she’ll do different activities so she’s tried different things which is a great compromise. Brownies also kept her topped up on her pain medication which school refuse to give her.

They’ve told me they have no provision for giving pain relief on the trip which is the same in school. They’ve also said if children sit out of an activity they will just have to watch everyone else do it, there’s no staffing for them to have a group at the centre they’re staying in doing something else – I even said DD would be happy to do worksheets or similar.

And before anyone says “But there’s more going with school” there’s the same number at Brownies and Brownies had a bigger age range as school only take the 90 year 4s, whereas Brownies had 60 Brownies (7-10 year olds), 30 guides (10-14 year olds), and a couple of Rainbows (7 year olds) who’re ready to move to Brownies soon.

School have said if she doesn’t go they will not be providing alternative work, she will be the only one in her entire year not going and she will be supervised by “whichever member off staff is free”. She does have 1-1 TA for parts of the day and one of her two 1-1s won’t be going and I’ve offered to get her tutor she has outside of school to provide work (tutor has already offered) and I’ve been told again the trip is compulsory. Apparently they've never had anyone not go ever.

So AIBU and just have to suck it up? The trip is after half term.

"And how do you suggest they do that without staff?"

Well they shouldn't be doing a trip if they can't provide enough staff for all - simples!

How? It would need a staff member to be trained in giving that medication, and how do you suggest she takes part if they don’t have the staff ratio?

How much training does it need to pour out a spoonful of medicine 😭😂

The trouble is it seems they will allow her to sit out as and when necessary but she wants to join her friends for all the activities so the school are kind of on a hiding to nothing.
Maybe you could have a little chat with her about pacing herself? Although the lack of pain medication would be a deal breaker for me - as someone else said could you not go along to help with the trip?

I wonder this too. The OP's DD is Y4, she's not a baby in a nursery. It's not hard to read a prescription and give the correct dose. She can take it herself, all she needs is a staff member to keep it safe and give it to her.

When ds has been on school trips at secondary they've asked for medication so I can't see how this can't be done at primary (I assume they did then as well but I can't remember, whereas I can remember the secondary school trips).

Get the pain relief in her EHCP, then the school will have to do it. You can also get adjustments re routine and outing activities in her EHCP. And, while you are about it, start looking for another, more helpful school.

The school need to make a proper plan for your child and make reasonable adjustments. www.gov.uk/government/publications/supporting-pupils-at-school-with-medical-conditions--3

Your daughter sounds like a well adjusted and confident kid. And you sound like a good mother who helps her child push their limits.

It is the school’s responsibility in this case, and having her consistently sit out because of a physical disability is unacceptable!

Have you discussed any of this with DD? What feelings does she have about it?

When this came up many years ago for mine, the parents were told that this is compulsory as it is good for the children not to be with the parents all the time. However, the pressure being put on you is unacceptable, I suspect that the school don't want an odd child floating around who they can't supervise. Also, you can't withdraw a child without permission from the head. I'm aware that several people are suggesting about complaints but I don't know that those will work. Disabled children are encouraged to go to mainstream schools but they don't have the money available to make more than reasonable adjustments to the school. There should be a governor responsible for special needs children and the first step should be to talk to that person who can be contacted via the school. If they are unable to provide suitable support then you should be able to ask to remove your DD from the trip and keep her at home with a tutor. You can also talk to Ofsted, the education department at the council, possibly the CAB and an education solicitor (although the chances are you will have to pay for that). If you can speak to your GP and/or consultant then you might get a sainthood for a miracle but they may also be of help or contact the school.

Are they asking for parent helpers? Is it feedable you could go too? Or that you could drive her up for part of the trip? Although it's shit that they aren't being accommodating & you should need to take time off work to make if happen successfully for her.

My son refused to get on the coach for a ‘compulsory’ trip in year 4. He is ND. I told the school that I didn’t think that he would be able to go ( he has anxiety) the school spoke to him and tried to re- assure him, but in the end he just couldn’t do it. I kept him home as the school had no provision for any child that did not go on the trip. Reading your post it’s clear that the school can’t look after your DD appropriately on the trip, even if she wants to go, it would be awful if she ended up screaming in pain because she had done too much and since they won’t even give her medication or moderate the activities she does, it’s a real possibility. I would definitely not be sending her, I’d just tell them that you are sorry but you can’t allow her to go under those conditions. Just fyi, I really regret not putting my foot down and just telling my sons school that he wasn’t going, my son has never expressed regret about not going and a week after the trip it was old news.

There is absolutely no way the school can do this. You have to give written permission for her to go on school trip. I know this from having my own children but also because I had to give written permission for children in care. Tell them in writing that she can't go and complain to the governors.

OP, have you managed to talk to the school.

No update yet, I spoke to Physio at the end of last week and she said she'd contact the SENCo and chat with her but not sure if she's managed it yet.

Have you heard back from the venue? @Y4GoingAway

You’ve had lots of advice around disability discrimination here. You seem unwilling to take it or to make an official complaint regarding their appalling treatment of your daughter. If my daughter was needing a day off because she was in so much pain after a day of neglectful treatment (refusing to give pain relief /allowing her to do too much) I’d be going mad and making official complaints… This is ABUSE ! School have a duty of care to your daughter while she is in their care. They should be rescheduling some of the activities to be on different days to accommodate your daughter… It’s ridiculous and abusive for them to leave PE & forest walks on the same day knowing the pain it causes a student & the fact she’s then in agony and needs time off school!
Even without the residential trip this is disgusting !! What would they do if they had a child in a wheelchair?! Would they make reasonable adjustments to accommodate ?
You need to contact a local disability charity and ask for legal advice… If you don’t fight for her rights no one else will.
Read the schools complaints proceedure and follow it… go all the way to OFSTED if necessary

@T1Dmama I am listening, i am reading everything, but I do not want to make the situation worse for my DD in the classroom. She leaves the school in 6 months time and I will put a complaint in just before she goes to Middle School until then I just need to get a resolution on this trip.

Have they completed a risk assessment?

The solution is to complain and say that they’re breaking the law by not making reasonable adjustments for the trip. Do a careplan stating she needs medication every lunch and evening if doing physical activities. A careplan is a legal document and they will have to follow it or risk being taken to court. Leaving your daughter in this situation, even at school, if not being given pain relief isn’t acceptable. Their treatment is disgraceful and I would be refusing to send her into school until they amend this behaviour. Like I say it’s abusive. You need to protect her and if that means telling them she will not be on the trip then so be it. Personally I don’t think you should be sending her in on PE days, or withdraw permission for her to leave school for the forest walks. If they’re on school property then state that you want her to do a different activity.
You also need to ensure you have a very clear and precise care plan in place for middle school, including the necessity for pain relief to be administered.
I worry as you are effectively sending her into an abusive environment where her needs are being ignored. Sorry I don’t mean to sound harsh, but I wouldn’t be sending my child somewhere where people are causing / allowing her to suffer.

How could you make it worse? If you think they’d somehow bully her because you’ve complained then this school is clearly not the right place for her! I’m scared for her that you think school would somehow be worse if you fight for her rights 😢
The school has bullied you/her in the past???

You’ve also stated further up that she’s going to a different school to her current friends when she goes to middle…. With this is mind would it be worth transferring now so she has 6 months before middle school to make new friends that she will go up with? Her current school sound horrendous.
my DD has a disability and I know how hard it is to constantly have to fight. But fight we must ☹️

I'm a primary school teacher and I think the school's attitude is appalling. To refuse to give a child their pain medication is awful. I would complain to the board of governors.

Personally if its free I would just say I will get her there myself, then call her in sick on the day. No work needs doing as the other children are not doing class work because they are on the trip. If you can sort childcare, give her the day off and do fun things she can do at home.

@T1Dmama She has an Education and Health Care Plan (EHCP) which is the legal document. They follow what it says to do with the 1-1 time and other intervention but I don't think they can legally be made to change the timetable/scheduling if they only have staff on those specific days. I am looking into whether they can be forced to give medication but it's looking likely I can't force this even if it's in the EHCP.

I have spoken to Sendiass (they go by a different name in my county but it's basically them) but they weren't very helpful.

The outdoor centre have not come back to me yet.

With regards to moving her, I don't think it#s in her best interests to move now and then again in 6 months - thats a whole new routine, new walking route etc. for the sake of 6 months where she has to start all over again. She's going to a different school to her friends but there will be children from hers and the other Year 4 classes who go to her middle school so it's not like she'll know nobody and she has a cousin on my ExHs side also going to her Middle School.

Are her medications prescription?

'Prescription medication can only be administered in school when it would be detrimental to a child’s health or school attendance not to administer it.'

From here: childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/supporting-children-with-medical-needs-in-schools/#:~:text=Prescription%20medication%20can%20only%20be,attendance%20not%20to%20administer%20it.

So as you have said she has to take days off due to pain, if it's prescribed, they have to give it.