Fining children and expecting other parent to enforce it?

[SpottyDressingRoom]

Ex is angry because dc1 has not been answering exs calls and dc2 is angry with him (ex) and was rude to him on the phone.

I have had serious talk to dc2 about rudeness and would support warning and enforcement of agreed discipline for future repeat, but ex wants to fine him £25, with no warning, to be taken from his Xmas money that dc has already received and I would have to enforce.

Ex also wants to impose the same fine on dc1 for not answering calls and for me to similarly enforce it.

I don't use money fines here. I have explained my consequences which are applied and well understood by the dc, but he has decided that he wants to impose fines, £5 per transgression, enforced by me.

AIBU to object to being made into his enforcer and made to use his consequence framework which I don't use here because I don't think it's fair?

Sure, he can fine them, but he needs to take it out the pocket money he pays them.
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He doesn’t give them pocket money? Well tough luck, how’s he planning to fine them?

This, in a nutshell.

You’re perfectly entitled to ‘undermine’ shit parenting decisions, whether he lives with you or not.

The fact that you thought you’d be told to support him, and are surprised by the level of outrage at this stupid idea and the support for you here, says you’re too enmeshed with him still, despite him being an ex.

Redraw the boundaries. Your house your rules your discipline decisions.

Also - by getting you to enforce this bizarre punishment, it seems like he's still trying to control you? I'm willing to bet he's your ex because he was an abusive partner? Financially controlling?

Have you told them that they've got to the age that they can decide on the contact they have with their dad.

Ex can go back to court if he's not happy about the change but at those ages he's not onto a winner.

I presume he's a very controlling person...

Extorting money from you own kids, because they have realised what an insufferable arsehole you are.

What could possibly go wrong?

I'd just tell him that's ridiculous and I wouldn't be doing it... How old are children? Do they have set contact times? Is he always controlling?

So random to suddenly without warning introduce fining.

This issue aside Op, how do you get on with your ex.

Me? I’d fudge it. I wouldn’t want to mess up my amicable relationship with ex BUT I couldn’t possibly support this.

So… I would talk to DC and say that you don’t agree with the fine but do agree he needs to be punished. Suggest he has to write an email to his dad. Truly expressing how sorry he is AND that instead of fining without warning… he will “work off” the fine whilst at his dad’s. Perhaps clean the car inside and out. Whatever his dad suggest.

Undermine this shit parenting.

When your children decide to stop seeing their useless father, support them.

Fines are for very limited circumstances where they are a natural consequence of an action. Break something and it needs to be replaced or the child at least contributes towards the replacement. Don’t do your chores or meet your basic responsibilities and you don’t earn your allowance which is the equivalent of don’t show up to work and you don’t get paid.

not only would I refuse to be the enforcer, I would protect your children’s money so that they can’t be pressured to hand it over.

Does your ex work in a court...fines 😁

No wonder they don’t want to answer his calls

So random to suddenly without warning introduce fining.

This issue aside Op, how do you get on with your ex.

Me? I’d fudge it. I wouldn’t want to mess up my amicable relationship with ex BUT I couldn’t possibly support this.

So… I would talk to DC and say that you don’t agree with the fine but do agree he needs to be punished. Suggest he has to write an email to his dad. Truly expressing how sorry he is AND that instead of fining without warning… he will “work off” the fine whilst at his dad’s. Perhaps clean the car inside and out. Whatever his dad suggest

There is no way I'd be doing any of that.

Fines are imposed by Magistrates or Judges to people found guilty of criminal offences.

Ex is not a Judge and the DC have not committed any crimes.

DC1 simply does not want to speak to his "D"F, and who can blame him?

DC2 was allegedly rude snd the OP has spoken to him about it already.

Nothing more needs doing.

I’d be laughing in his face.

Why would you think you had to back up an arse that you're no longer in a relationship with? I would be telling the children that you won't be taking any money and just leave it at that. What is ex planning on doing with the money? Spending it on himself no doubt.

I would be taking a big step back from having anything to do with this idiot, he's an ex for a reason. You might wish you could co parent amicably and all get on wonderfully but that just isn't possible with some people - and pretending his behaviour is fine and backing him up when he's an arse is not teaching your kids a good lesson.

At 16 and 12 they're old enough to decide they want nothing more to do with him if he's an arsehole and I'd be supporting them in not seeing him. Telling them they shouldn't be rude to him and that they have to see him no matter how he treats them is setting them up for a life time of MH problems IMO.

He is a shit parent and I expect your dc have been letting him know that in the way they can.

They are getting older and it sounds like they are trying to put on boundaries with him. He doesn't like that because he is controlling. You need to support them.

I'd ask him why he thinks his almost adult son does not have any to talk to him and why is 12 year old has lost any respect for him and then suggest he starts working on improving relationships rather than pushing them further away. One his children are at Uni a once a week call will be the best he can hope for if he carries on like this they will never call him.
Is there a court order for contact?

I imagine this has already been said (not read full thread) but I can't imagine why they're not answering his calls.

I can see why they don’t want to speak to him!! Bit weird and it’s not going to help the relationship between them. Basically the only way he can think of disciplining them (or trying to control) them is by taking something away rather than actually parenting them. And as for roping you in, absolutely not. Horrible position to be put in by an unpleasant man by sounds of it. Shame for your kids

I have been out at a family lunch and now helping dc2 with a project so I haven't caught up with all replies but to answer a few bits.

Ex was abusive and controlling yes.
I have done the freedom programme, as well as various other things but evidently even several years down the line I'm still affected.
The money he is proposing to fine from did nominally come from him, but actually came from me giving him money when he had dc1 to stay recently because he said he otherwise couldn't afford it.

I have messaged saying I don't agree and won't be enforcing or supporting his fines. I will deal with rudeness according to my own methods while they are here, and some insight or understanding into where the rudeness is stemming from would be a good idea - while not condoning it. (He won't care to look into it and will dismiss it as pure naughtiness but nevermind)

Thank you for all the input, it has really helped to set my mind straight and the real life people who I've talked to about it agree with this thread. So thanks. I will be back later.

Ex also wants to impose the same fine on dc1 for not answering calls and for me to similarly enforce it.

Why would you support punishing a 16 year old for not prioritising his controlling father's wants and needs over his own?

If he doesn't want to talk to his dad, that's surely up to him?

By punishing him for not wanting to talk to his dad (whether through imposing a mad fine or something else), you'd be teaching him that he should ignore his own feelings and put his dad's first.

How were they rude, why do they need dealing with just because they do not want to interact with this controlling man?

No wonder they don't want to speak to him. This isn't parenting. Stick to your guns, this is not your battle. Perhaps he could try being their father instead of some sort of officer, maybe then they'll respect him.

I think you really need to have a full on conversation with your children about how they feel, without the threat of punishment for perceived rudeness, I fear if you don't they will end up being alienated by not just their father but yourself too

I have an ex that tried to use money to make his children comply, used to threaten to stop paying for things every time he lost his temper. Neither of them speak to him now they are adults. Don’t engage with his nonsense.it’s all about control.

This.

Have only read your posts OP.

What a surprise that he "was abusive and controlling"! Well, he still is. I'm pretty sure that he'd have found something to 'fine' his children for, if not the phonecalls. Because really, all he wants is to abuse and control. And look at you, getting tied up in knots by his demands! As he intended.

"I have messaged saying I don't agree and won't be enforcing or supporting his fines."
Excellent. Nobody in their right mind would 'fine' their children, he's only pulling this stunt to abuse and control you all. That's who he is.

If your 16 year old doesn't want to return your Ex's calls - that's OK. They don't have to. In fact, they don't have t have anything to do with their dad if they don't want to. Courts accept that teenagers have a say in their own lives, so they won't back your Ex so ignore any threats of that nature that he'll undoubtedly make.

Your 12 year old is angry with your Ex. Probably right to be, too. That is entirely between your ex and your child, nothing to do with you (other than supporting your child). And 12 - they'd be listened to by the Courts too, albeit a bit less than at 16.

What I'm saying is, any posturing your Ex tries on you, it's empty. He's got nothing. He knows it too, hence his trying to put you back under his thumb with this 'expecting you to enforce' crap. He's pathetic. And he can Fuck. Right. Off.