Fining children and expecting other parent to enforce it?

[SpottyDressingRoom]

Ex is angry because dc1 has not been answering exs calls and dc2 is angry with him (ex) and was rude to him on the phone.

I have had serious talk to dc2 about rudeness and would support warning and enforcement of agreed discipline for future repeat, but ex wants to fine him £25, with no warning, to be taken from his Xmas money that dc has already received and I would have to enforce.

Ex also wants to impose the same fine on dc1 for not answering calls and for me to similarly enforce it.

I don't use money fines here. I have explained my consequences which are applied and well understood by the dc, but he has decided that he wants to impose fines, £5 per transgression, enforced by me.

AIBU to object to being made into his enforcer and made to use his consequence framework which I don't use here because I don't think it's fair?

I’m so sad you might have thought we would all say you should be doing this! I’d undermine the hell out of shitty parent it’s like that. I suggest you tell him: ‘I won’t be doing anything so ridiculous. Their Christmas money is theirs to keep (talk to the dc about this and support them to open a bank account ifyou think they need help in resisting handing over their Christmas money to ex for ‘fines’). You call very frequently, I’ve now told them dad will call once every second day on my contact time and they have agreed to try to answer for that frequency of calling, which is still far more than I speak ti them when they are with you. It would help if you discussed suitable times with them; they are people with lives. I’m doing you a huge favour you don’t deserve here, as they are also people rapidly getting closer to adulthood who will soon be able to make their own decisions regarding contact, if you don’t change your approach you won’t like those decisions. No need to thank me, I’m doing it for my children.

I was honesty expecting everyone to say I had to back ex up and was bu.

Jesus.
How long have you been split from ex, & what number did he do on you to make you feel you somehow still ought to be dancing to his tune?

As DC1 is now 16, surely he can make up his own mind whether he wants to talk to or even see his dad?

This sounds like a last-ditch attempt at control by ex, because DC1 is pulling away, & DC2 is now responding with rudeness. I'd be keener on establishing the reasons for that rudeness than punishing it. Mainly because your ex is batshit, & I'd believe your sons over his version of reality.

Honestly I've met men (a man) like this in real life he also removes all monies given to his children from his family so I don't spend it the children don't see any of it and it doesn't go into savings for them either he takes it and spends it on himself he tells his family I remove it and keep it if they actually saw or even spoke to there grandchildren they would get the truth but that's far too much for them to do

Frankly op dc's age 12 and 16 are old enough to decide whether to speak to their df or not and generally whether to answer their phones.

If they don't want to speak to him, surely that gives a message to him.

If he isn't nice to them why should they answer their phones?

And frankly why are you being his enforcer here?

Stick up for your kids. He sounds a horrid df who deserves to have his calls ignored.

They at least deserve to have one decent parent though. Please be that one x

I think you need to get your ex out of your head and think what you want.

Your house, your rules.

Why is ex calling on your time? If he sees them regularly could your stance be "you don't need to call, you saw them this week, if the boys want to call you in between that's up to them, but I won't be forcing them to".

I struggle with him wanting to punish as it feels controlling to insist on regular calls. More difficult with the other DC as its not clear why he is angry with dad, but punishment for feelings always feels off to me, because of the hard bottling them up can do.

I think you need to decide whether you think your boys did anything wrong before telling them off.

As far as punishment I agree with pp. His punishment, he deals with it. He can't take money given to them by others though, agree with pp if he fines it comes out of the pocket money he gives them otherwise its stealing money given to them for their benefit by others.

Why would you back up shorty discipline methods that won't do anything to repaint the shaky relationship he appears to have with his dc?
Maybe he needs to ask himself why his sons don't wish to speak to him often.

Oh @SpottyDressingRoom the fact the you even have to ask makes me think he has messed with your head/behaved in a controlling way for so long you have lost sight of what is ok.

He is still trying to call the shots-take away all of his power and ignore him.
Don't even discuss with it him. Dis-engage.

He is 100% in the wrong and has absolutely no right to expect you to enforce his completely ridiculous scheme.
Your DC are def old enough to decide if they want to engage with him and based on his behaviour I would not facilitate this at all.

Grey rock and move on with your life.

Sounds like he is very unpleasant so no wonder kids don't want to speak with him. Sounds like he just wants to steal their Xmas money. Refuse and tell him of he is nicer to children they will want to talk to him. Your ex sounds controlling and pathetic. I would refuse to talk to him too.

I would tell him that I disagree with that style of consequence and that you will not become his enforcer. I would also let him know that while I disagree with his methods, I will do nothing to stop him from enforcing.

If he wants to tie money to his relationship with his children, he could use positive reinforcement and actually pay them for answering. Both systems are absurd, but one might get more of the effect that he wants. He could also try working on becoming a person to whom they wish to speak.

In your place, I would insist that they call him him once daily as a courtesy, and perhaps they could jointly choose a time. Beyond that, his relationship management would be his issue to resolve.

He sounds truly awful. Can I ask why he’s your ex? My kids hardly answered their dads calls, tough as he shouldn’t have behaved in ways to make him an ex. He’d complain but I’d tell him to eff off he had suggested such a thing.

Since when did people’fine’ their children! Bloody shocking way to behave. Parents should be fined for taking their children money!

You should absolutely undermine this shitty emotionally abusive behaviour. Protect your children.

Who does he think he is the police? Tell him to do one and that no money will be fined

If he insists on physically taking their money while they are with him then I would fine them the entire amount they have and you take it from them (and keep it safe for them to spend as they wish). That way they have no money to give him.

He sounds like a tyrant. What a control freak.

You need to stand up for yourself. Remind him that you are no longer a couple and clearly you have your own ways of doing things. You aren't obliged to support his batshit, knee-jerk punitive measures against the children. They at least need one parent with some common sense who can enforce safe and reasonable boundaries. Don't let him bully you into doing things the wrong way.

It’s a pretty terrible discipline system. Regardless he will have to discipline them on his own time.

Does he give them pocket money? He can withhold that to cover his fines.

I do agree that in general parents should back each other up but I don't agree with taking their Christmas money and he really can't expect you to be his enforcer. Plus he's nuts if he thinks this is how to improve his relationship and communication with them.

What punishment has been given for the rudeness? Does it warrant further punishment?

Are his expectations with taking calls reasonable or not? Does he expect them to pick up whenever he calls regardless of what they may have going on? Or has he been an involved parent wanting to chat and they're never picking up or returning his calls?

Is this not just an attempt to cut your maintenance?

He “fines” them but you have to collect the money and give it to him. When you don’t, he will cut the money he gives you to “settle your debt to him”.

So four missed calls, and he’ll cut your maintenance by £100. Or however much he fancies.

In your place, I would insist that they call him him once daily as a courtesy, and perhaps they could jointly choose a time. Beyond that, his relationship management would be his issue to resolve.

WHAT?

The boys don't need to do that.
I'm also betting their father wouldn't recognise courtesy if it bit him on the arse.

Who gave them the money, by the way? Was it you or your relatives? And what is he doing with it? Is he intending to actually steal it and keep it for himself?

I think you need to keep any money that you and your family gift the children under your possession while this ridiculous rule of his is in place. That way he can only steal money from the kids that he gave them.

Wait so he wants to fine them for not answering his calls?

so in theory he’s teaching that tough shit what you want. Your autonomy doesn’t matter and you’ve got no thoughts or rights at all and that it doesn’t matter what you think or believe?!?

nah……..

At 16 your eldest is plenty old enough to decide if he wants to talk to his father or not. They shouldn't be rude but you dealt with that.

No way do you need to be backing up this level of madness and control from him.

That is control, pyre and simple.
Answer me when I say or you lose money? That’s abuse.
Do not have any part in it. Your children are old enough to decide whether they answer his calls — and if they don’t, it’s for a reason.

I'd tell him if his behaviour improves maybe his kids would want to speak to him but you're not, what is effectively stealing their money to make them speak to him. That's the joy of mobile phones really isn't it? If someone is an arsehole you get to ignore their calls.

Is he a bit short after the Christmas holidays?

Let’s hope your dc have inherited their brains from you and not their shit-for-brains dad.

and he wonders why they don’t answer him? Why their relationship is rocky?

fucking hell he’s an idiot.