DH will not work. Can I take away his hobby equipment?

[Menomenon]

DH is 49 and hasn’t had a job for 18yrs. Before that he was in a basic role not earning much. He has some investments so these bring in a small amount. He went back to Uni and got a degree but hasn’t used it. When DC were little he would say he was a househusband, now he doesn’t even have that cover.

I work full time. He does almost nothing around the house. He is obsessive about the lawn and paths in our back garden but the front of the house looks dysfunctional. We have rubbish, old sofa, broken drains etc. Our house inside is awful - the DC won’t bring friends home. He will not do anything. I try to fix things but get shouted at or told he will sort or whatever. Cleaners leave.

He spends all day faffing on obsessive garden projects which he can pass off as ‘needed’. They sort of are needed (but way, way, way down the list). He barely cleans and won’t do anything practical/handy.

WIBU to take away and store his garden stuff until some of the urgent items around the house/for the family get completed?

OP do you seriously think that such a unbalanced, disrespectful relationship doesn’t have any effect on the DCs that are raised in this environment?

Can you genuinely, hand on heart say that if your child or sibling was in a relationship like this you’d think it was absolutely fine?

Everything our parents did impacted us as children.
Everything we do as parents impacts our children.

You cannot honestly say that your DH’s behaviour doesn’t negatively impact your DCs.

I agree if he refuses help.

Sorry to repeat myself again on some facts: my DC are not damaged or neglected and will be fine; I have taken professional legal advice.

Why am I posting? Cos I am totally fed up with my DH doing way less than me! Really sick of it and I feel really used even though I have enabled it. I really wanted to know what would shake him out of his behaviour. The most helpful posts have been those that explore this with an understanding of PDA. I am not ignoring any posts but those are the ones I am reading a couple of times.

The LTB/You Should Be Shamed/Your DC Are Unloved type posts are, well, MN AIBU. People get very passionate to make their point for their own reasons, so, OK, just roll on.

Whose response do you mean?

I’d say (and o don’t know him well enough to say) but the difference with abuse to being ND is it’s a choice.

The choice is which type of work you do @Flapjackquack. Not whether you work or whether you starve - although that in itself is also another choice. So many choices in fact.

Nothing to do with being indebted to a man or woman.

Anyway I'll finish here because I don't want to derail the thread.

Sorry to repeat myself again on some facts: my DC are not damaged or neglected and will be fine; I have taken professional legal advice.

I'm sorry but growing up under the same roof as such an unhealthy relationship dynamic is damaging.

The most important relationship model for children is that of their parents. The longer you stay, the more likely it is they'll replicate either your role or his as adults.

Because they think this dynamic is normal and acceptable. Even if you tell them it isn't, your actions tell them it is.

It's worrying you don't see the damage this modelling is likely to do to them.

He won’t change unless he gets help.

So, what’s the next step in regard to you helping him to get a diagnosis?
I would suggest booking him a GP appointment.

Sorry to repeat myself again on some facts: my DC are not damaged or neglected and will be fine; I have taken professional legal advice.

You cannot say that, though. You don't know how they'll feel when they grow up, leave home and realise how unusual their upbringing is.

It's not normal to live in a house that's in a state of disrepair like you describe. It's not normal to live with a hoarder whose hoarding is so bad that you can't use your basement.

If you had no children, it would be different. Adults are free to live however they choose - but you have minors living with you who have absolutely no choice and are currently being forced to live in a neglected, dilapidated home because their parents are prioritising their marriage above their welfare.

You say they're happy and they may well be - because this is their normal and they don't know any better. They're children who rely on you, not adults who are free to make different choices.

But your dc won’t bring friends home. That must show you they’re not happy with the current situation.

OP what made him go to counselling last time?

Why did the counselling end?

A good friend of mine had a not dissimilar situation; it was via counselling that ADHD was explored and her husband is now on medication which has helped enormously. Life changingly so. He talks about it with such emotion as he sees what he put everyone through. He’s still “him” but contributing, and functional. I suspect strongly that this was the consequence of an ultimatum from his wife as she really couldn’t take any more.

Quite a lot of people here also want to insist DH doesn’t love us

You said he thinks you're evil.

Its you who says black is white OP!

This is true. And as other people have pointed out, Why should he want things to change? He has it all his way.

The positives from the previous counselling are very obvious in our lives so I guess that I can point to that as a way that intervention/change might be good. However, I am wondering if I want to take ownership of him getting a diagnosis or if I can insist that he makes the appointment. It would be a battle. I am quite encouraged that some posters have mentioned meds positively.

There is a book called 'understanding PDA syndrome in children' by Christie, Duncan, Fioler & Healy. There is a chapter on adulthood in it. However, to be frank it'll be an uphill battle to change his behaviour in adulthood.

Obviously you are staying put so you need to take charge and sort everything out yourself (house, kids, life insurance for yourself, etc) as soon as possible.

Please tell me more! What happened to get him to the help?

@Parrotid Sorry - to answer, DH went to counselling because I said I wanted to leave. It was a friend’s suggestion.

@Menomenon would you benefit maybe from counselling on your own?

Why am I posting? Cos I am totally fed up with my DH doing way less than me! Really sick of it and I feel really used even though I have enabled it. I really wanted to know what would shake him out of his behaviour.

You seem to want advice on how to change him, but he doesn't want to change. So what are you going to do?

You can't control another person's feelings or behaviour, only your own reaction to it.

You say you're really sick of it, but you won't accept that you don't have to put up with it anymore.

This isn't what love looks like I'm afraid. You're being treated appallingly by him and your children are having this treatment / dynamic normalised:

He tells me I am ‘starting a row’ if I ever try to talk about things. He will not look for solutions as he thinks there is no problem.

Someone asked if he'd be happier without you and the kids and you said "He thinks he would prefer it"

And he thinks he’s had a terribly tough life, I am an evil person, and why should he have to do things he doesn’t like doing.

She had had ENOUGH. Similar story of unfinished projects, huge enthusiasm for things which were only of an interest to him, and then would suddenly be discarded, couldn’t hold down a job despite a double masters and being fluent in several languages, bouts of debilitating depression, the need to just escape and sit in a shed for a week or so, with no disturbance. That sort of thing.

As far as I know there was no “final straw” as it were. She was just done. She arranged the NHS screening test for him (that’s online, I’ll find the link) and he rattled through it, but also said “well even if you’re right, I only believe in natural products and I’m not taking drugs so there’s no point.” So she said well you owe it to me to try, or it really is over. And she meant it. Or at least she made sure HE believed she meant it.

So he was diagnosed, I think they did it privately and then his care was handed back to the NHS.

This was about 3 years ago. She is my friend but I’ve known him just as long and I went for a walk with him and spoke really freely. He said he was mortified by how bad things had got and that he felt so much better, and clearer. He was really emotional. They moved house, a totally new fresh start, and I saw them a few months ago. He is still the live wire he always was, but the projects get finished, he has drive and vision to use his undeniable talent and intelligence and they are “living.” I don’t think it’s all roses, he still is a very self focussed in his interests and is still freelance, he will never have a PAYE job but they are back to “looking in the same direction.”

I have no doubt whatsoever that he would not have done anything if she hadn’t forced him. He is still chilled by how close he came to losing everything.

There you have it. You have to make him believe you will go. That he will lose everything.

Oh yes, his wife, my good friend, went for, and still has, CBT. That’s changed her too, she said it’s made her explore the decisions SHE made and made her more confident in knowing that she’s acting from a position of what is good for her, not what she’s got into the habit of doing, or thinking is a “fact” when it’s actually an opinion. Interestingly their house was “his” when they met, he’s from old money and it was all tied up in some complex inheritance with a brother. That was all unknotted very quickly, they sold very quickly, even in the shit state it was in, and moved to a cheaper area near to friends.

OMG @Parrotid this is largely my story, down to the double masters. I have already had the CBT (hence being able to identify fact and opinion, and stand my ground on both) and CBT has also really helped create opportunities and resilience. Thank you so much for posting.

A PP asked about counselling for me - I have had various bouts of counselling including CBT mentioned above (and unlike DH, I enjoy it and like going). I will be having some more life coaching as part of a work thing in the Spring, where I will mention this.

I also do quite a lot of work-sponsored Personal Development/Personal Growth stuff. DH has no equivalent opportunities which again increases the gulf in ability to team-work or collaborate.

He cannot be happy living like this either. He needs help to see how his life can be better. Plus, remember - you’ve enabled him to get away with living like this for so long, so he believes that it’s okay as you and the DC have gone along with it and haven’t left him yet.

I find that the stick and carrot method works. You’ll have to give him an ultimatum again, like you did when you got him to go to counselling. I had to do this to get my DH to explore counselling (separately and couple counselling).

Yes, you should book his GP appointment. You’ve already done more than enough to enable him so far. At least 18 years of it! It would be unfair of you to just step back and refuse to make one phone call. One phone call to fight for your DC and your marriage.

@Menomenon
I forgot to add - DH is glad that I have given him ultimatums over the years. He’s agreed that I was right to have done.

Counselling definitely helps to see things more clearly. Life is never perfect for anyone, but we are happier now and happily still together.

DH tragically lost his Father when he was a young child and his Mother still suffers from trauma due to that. She has become a hoarder and does not look after her health. MIL’s hoarding also affects the relationship with her and our DC and her other GC as we can’t spend time with her at her home (Health & Safety issues, hygiene etc). Counselling has helped DH with the above. So much so that he recommends counselling to his friends, family and employees that are struggling with life (relationships, MH, etc), esp. men.