DH will not work. Can I take away his hobby equipment?

[Menomenon]

DH is 49 and hasn’t had a job for 18yrs. Before that he was in a basic role not earning much. He has some investments so these bring in a small amount. He went back to Uni and got a degree but hasn’t used it. When DC were little he would say he was a househusband, now he doesn’t even have that cover.

I work full time. He does almost nothing around the house. He is obsessive about the lawn and paths in our back garden but the front of the house looks dysfunctional. We have rubbish, old sofa, broken drains etc. Our house inside is awful - the DC won’t bring friends home. He will not do anything. I try to fix things but get shouted at or told he will sort or whatever. Cleaners leave.

He spends all day faffing on obsessive garden projects which he can pass off as ‘needed’. They sort of are needed (but way, way, way down the list). He barely cleans and won’t do anything practical/handy.

WIBU to take away and store his garden stuff until some of the urgent items around the house/for the family get completed?

As an ND married to an ND I don't think OP is as NT as sh thinks

My parent's family and friends would have said similar. My grandparents certainly did. I was praised and admired and successful- outwardly at least- and I know my parents were told that by many people over the years. Due to the seemingly middle-class nature of our lives, the neglect was ignored and glossed over by adults and professionals around us. It did not mean that the chaos of our home was not profoundly damaging and neglectful. My mum likes to pretend that as I and my siblings have successful adult lives and relationships we were not damaged by our childhoods. This is not true and I very much doubt it will be true of your children when they are adults either.
My father too is ND- he is diagnosed with ADHD and PDA - I have every sympathy for the challenges this gives him, but it was and is selfish of him and our mother to bring us up in a neglectful and challenging environment that damaged us because neither of them wanted to admit that he was a bad parent and prioritise the children over the grown adult. A previous poster mentions that as the DH is neurodiverse the children might be too- I am ND and so are my children. The chaos of my childhood was particularly distressing for me because I am ND and, as I am capable of prioritising my children and their needs, does not make me incapable of being a good parent.
You mentioned earlier that you all love your DH- I loved my father, I would have been outwardly sad if my parents had split when I was 12, but I remember thinking at the time when they had an argument that I would have to stay with my dad if my parents ever separated because he would simply not cope alone and being terrified of what that would mean for me. I don't love him anymore- as an adult I see him as so profoundly selfish that I cannot love him or forgive him for his actions. Perhaps if my mother had left him I still would love him.
I've actually found reading your "reasons" that you should stay with your DH deeply distressing- so similar to my parents and my childhood and, like them, so lacking in the insight needed to prioritise and protect the children caught in the middle. Why do you not think that you and your children deserve better than this?

That doesn’t take away from the issues. It’s just meant to add context. The counselling helped DH join in because he loves DC and can understand the benefit of doing these individual things for them.

But he doesn’t see the benefit of providing a clean home they want to invite their friends to? It’s really all on his terms - isn’t it.

The thread isn’t going the usual way:

1. I have a problem.
2. that’s not actually your problem, your husband is the problem.
3. no no, surely not, he loves us
4. thats not love
5. really? I can’t take this in.
6. yes he is abusive, here is a checklist
7. really?
8. yes (x50)
9. really really????
10. yes
11. I can’t ignore this any more now can I
12. no you can’t, but there are supports available, we will help you
13. thanks for your help

we are fairly long in the thread and are still on number 4.
Something is not right here. OP how are these posts making you feel, do you think there is any truth at all in them? Are you just reading and shaking your head?

I just wanted to wish you all the best and hope you find happiness. Please do consider counselling.

He considers that I and all other working people are somehow not really ‘working’ when we work. It’s just a thing we do that we chose to do.

He is exactly correct here - we all make a choice about everything we think or do.

It sounds like conspiracy theory bullshit to me.

You stop enabling him by leaving

You will get half of everything , even in Scotland

Sell the house. Find somewhere else to live

No need to get angry

Just end the marriage

@SiennaT I was responding to your first post which was almost entirely about having empathy for the husband. I believe this has gone beyond that point, as the children are being harmed by this situation and their wellbeing should be the No.1 priority. I do know something about being the child in this situation, with an enabler parent being far too empathetic to their spouse at the expense of the children.

The key here is for him to want to recognise his ND and want to accommodate those challenges he faces for the sake of the family though.

He doesn't want to though, and the OP can't make him. You talked a lot about ND strategies, but the only strategy that will resolve this for the children is to remove them from this extremely unhealthy environment.

Maybe there's a part of you that likes mothering him?
To ask to take away his toys to make him work, and him being your dependant for 18 years, this seems to be a mum and child relationship, rather than a romantic relationship between two adults

I feel as if there is some kind of 'Folie à Deux' thing going on here?

we are fairly long in the thread and are still on number 4.

I have been on MN a long time and this made me laugh - you are right with your list, that is exactly how things normally go. I think it is a factor in a lot of the posts.

What derailed the thread IMO is that in my OP I mentioned DC not wanting to bring friends back. This resonated very strongly with some posters and understandably that was their focus sparking lots of concern and some abuse. As you can see, I worked with vulnerable children and don’t share those concerns. The people who know my DC, DH and me (and know my house/finances/lifestyle) don’t share those concerns.

Despite this, lots of posters are still insisting - insisting - that all the people involved and the people close to them are wrong, and that the DC are inevitably damaged, and desperate to get away, and would benefit from divorce. I tried to provide balance but too late. Quite a lot of people here also want to insist DH doesn’t love us - including your list. Lots of posters are posting from a place of care, but others are clearly projecting or reading in things that are not there.

Obviously, I am posting for support/information/assistance (and big thank you to those who have given it) but the most helpful posts are those that have analysed the facts in my posts and given advice based on that. The ones that take issue with the facts themselves and insisted Black must be White are less helpful. But all comments are appreciated.

His behaviour is a direct result of being unable to do these things because of the physical differences in his brain. He needs empathy and accommodations to allow him to do the things his family needs.

id say a free run of treating his wife like shit, sponging off her and neglecting the house his kids live in for the past 18 years undisrupted is enough empathy.
sorry but regardless of ND or MH no one should be treated like this. why should the OP sacrifice a safe home, a relationship with her children, a stress free life because of him. this seriously is just excusing abuse.

The fact that we all have a choice is a conspiracy theory?

We might not like the choices we have but we always have a choice.

Choose yours wisely @Flapjackquack

@Menomenon

OK I really hope you all have nice lives, particularly your DC.

I just think it's futile to keep pointing out the collateral damage you are doing right now to the future relationships with your DC. Yes they love you now but they know no different, this is their 'normal'

I hope, as adults, they choose to remain in contact with you and visit you regularly at your home.

In 2023 I predict I will visit my FIL's home once for an hour or so with my DC. I predict my DH will go over a further couple of times for a couple of hours. This could be your future

Fair point.

The NT reaction to the DH would be:

It has become clear over time that DH’s disabilities are sufficiently severe that he is completely unsuited to family life and seems to find it quite distressing.

The consequences for the children are to live in a shamefully embarrassing and unhealthy home with junk in the front garden, hoarding, peeling walls, potentially dangerous plumbing and electrics.

In order to protect my children from the consequences of DH’s disabilities and incapacities I will move to a warm dry tidy flat. I will install DH in a flat of his own and engage with medical professionals and adult social care to ensure his condition is fully diagnosed and understood, treated appropriately and he receives all available community support.

For this dysfunction to have been going on so long, for the bar to be set so low, OP must have her own unexamined dysfunction - be that ND, low self esteem and confidence, depression, anxiety, with a big dose of self-deception and denial. That OP could infer that a poster who commented that her children do not have a functioning family unit to lose is merely being spiteful - shows just how divergent she from an objective view of the situation, from reality, and from social norms etc.

It’s a very sad, as OP appears to be clinging to this dysfunctional man and the idea but not the reality of family because she has no means of facing or coping with the truth.

@IVbumble if the choice is to work or starve it’s not really a choice is it. Very few of us have an inheritance to live off which it sounds like the OPs husband is doing. It sounds like the bullshit conspiracy theorists pedal about being indebted to the man.

What derailed the thread IMO is that in my OP I mentioned DC not wanting to bring friends back.

It's not just this though OP, it's the fact they are living under the same roof as such an unhealthy dynamic that is normalising such a dysfunctional relationship, which means the longer you stay the more likely they are to replicate it (either in his role or yours) as adults themselves.

Wouldn't that break your heart?

The thing is OP - children being so adhered of their house thst they won’t have friends over is a HUGE deal. For a kid to be in that position the house must be very grim.

posters are perplexed that you are dismissing such a massive alarm bell.

in also interested that you haven’t come back re the legal point about the split of the family home in case of a divorce - beczue to me that is an obvious case of denying reality - again unless there is an unusual exception because of the inheritance (possible but very unlikely).

if this many posters are telling you something isn’t that in itself a sign?

What did you want to achieve from this thread OP?
Most people have explained multiple times why they would not want to live like you and would not expect their children to live like that either.
You must have been frustrated by your situation to post originally but since then you have robustly defended why you think it is a good idea not to change your children's living situation.
You have even had long and well thought out posts from adults that grew up in a similar situation to your children explaining that they can't forgive their parents but still you defend this way of life and insist your children are just fine with it.
It makes no difference to me or any other poster on this thread if you live like this until the day you die, it's your children I feel sorry for as they don't have a choice yet.

OP your children do not know any different yet, this is their normal. Sure they might be happy and thriving but give it 10 years and you could be sat wondering where it all went wrong as your children limit contact with you.

Also you’ve openly said your DH “thinks he would be happier without us”
And you’re still with him?! Why?!

@Menomenon actually your DC not wanting to bring friends back to the family home didn't impact at all on my opinion- it's based on your description of your DH, your description of the dynamic between you and your description of his behaviours. I do think it's a red flag, but it may have less to do with the mess and more to do with embarrassment about your DH- I know I was very worried about friends finding out what my DF was really like, far more than mess/ chaos, because that was my normal.

I think you are totally focussing on the idea that the house isn't as bad as you feel some posters are making out to justify ignoring the posters, like me, who are far more concerned about your husband's selfishness and what that means for you and your children and the dynamic you are raising them in.

Really whwre do you sed ypurself in 5 years when dc away at uni or left home?
Still living with dh in this crappy house?

What derailed the thread IMO is that in my OP I mentioned DC not wanting to bring friends back. This resonated very strongly with some posters and understandably that was their focus sparking lots of concern and some abuse. As you can see, I worked with vulnerable children and don’t share those concerns. The people who know my DC, DH and me (and know my house/finances/lifestyle) don’t share those concerns.

This is huge though. I’ve been the child who didn’t want to bring friends home or even have birthday parties, and it leads to insecurity in adult life. You end up being ashamed of everything in your life, even as an adult.

I work in Safeguarding, Children’s Services.

I’ve read OP’s updates and the last few pages of responses.

I have ND parents, family members and friends. I think DH and I may be ND too. I have 3 DC. Youngest Primary School DC (8yrs old) is ND (recently assessed but just missed the cut off for an Autism diagnosis). Youngest DC thrives with structure and routine. Me too.

My parents’ behaviour caused me childhood issues that followed me through to adulthood. I’ve had counselling. I’m currently very LC with my Father with long periods of NC over the years. I saw DV between my parents by my Father, which was then directed towards me during my troublesome teens. The last straw was me ending up in A&E the Summer before starting my GCSE’s. I refused to return home. We only went back home to pack. My Father has never met our youngest DC. I have a difficult relationship with my Mother that has improved somewhat over the last 5 years, due to me repeatedly having to instil strict boundaries and expectations of acceptable behaviour.

You need to do whatever is best for your DC. Your current situation is definitely not what’s best for them. And you’re not happy with it, hence why you’re seeking help.

You’re enabling your Husband. Help him to get help.

You say you work, have had professional success and have your own money. Therefore, you can rent if need be.

What will happen to the house when your Husband dies?
Who will the house be passed on to?

Your Husband will take medication, so he needs to get help or you will need to leave in order to protect yourself and your DC.

Your response is the exact definition of ableism. These kind of responses make me worried for the future of my ND children. Society has so far to go in reducing the discrimination and ignorance towards unseen disabilities.