DH will not work. Can I take away his hobby equipment?

[Menomenon]

DH is 49 and hasn’t had a job for 18yrs. Before that he was in a basic role not earning much. He has some investments so these bring in a small amount. He went back to Uni and got a degree but hasn’t used it. When DC were little he would say he was a househusband, now he doesn’t even have that cover.

I work full time. He does almost nothing around the house. He is obsessive about the lawn and paths in our back garden but the front of the house looks dysfunctional. We have rubbish, old sofa, broken drains etc. Our house inside is awful - the DC won’t bring friends home. He will not do anything. I try to fix things but get shouted at or told he will sort or whatever. Cleaners leave.

He spends all day faffing on obsessive garden projects which he can pass off as ‘needed’. They sort of are needed (but way, way, way down the list). He barely cleans and won’t do anything practical/handy.

WIBU to take away and store his garden stuff until some of the urgent items around the house/for the family get completed?

I love the male apologists on this thread. I have never seen a thread where a woman with teenage children is refusing to work or do any housework and isn’t told she needs to get a job.

But then I’ve never seen a thread with such a deluded OP who is lashing out at the posters who are telling the truth. Another poster here with a dysfunctional childhood (differently dysfunctional to this post) but one parent who loved the other and so refused to make any changes. I agree with everything the other posters are saying. I also now have a very calm and tidy house and for the first time in 30 years I feel safe.

I don't quite understand why you wouldn't sort some of the issues yourself?
Such as the sofa in the front garden, there's no excuse for that. Most councils offer a refuse service for large items- our local one will take away 3 large items a year free of charge, and after that for 15 pounds.
In an ideal world he wouldn't be a lazy bugger, but if you're going to stay then there's no reason why you can't use your own initiative so sort things out.

Maintaining a home in such a way that prevents outsiders coming in, or friends coming to tea, is a form of alienating your children from their peers, and I think is quite controlling by both of their parents.

He is a natural hoarder but I have almost conquered that in the house. We do not have cardboard boxes everywhere. His two sheds are a different story and our basement is unuseable.

You say you have "almost conquered" his hoarding in the house but this is not a victory at all. It has cost you an enormous effort and it's a battle that you will be fighting forever. It's a continuing drain on your mental energy. If you become unwell he's not going to keep a clean spacious house for you, is he? He's going to fill it up again. So you haven't really conquered anything at all. You've just dug a trench for yourself to live in and you're calling that "conquering" his hoarding.

*I know I should ‘do’ something. But DH is the problem and it’s him that really needs to ‘do’ things.

But he wont do what he needs to do. So one part of your story is similar to alcoholism or drug addiction and that's your own role in it, as summarised in the mantra: "You didn't cause this. You can't control it. You can't fix it". You are still trying to control his behaviour and fix him up into a viable life partner. And you can't. You're on a hiding to nothing. I'm sorry!

They know DH’s is not an adulthood they want (although they would never say that).

Would they want yours? Because your adulthood is what you are teaching them. Marry a damaged person, do all the work yourself, dig yourself a trench and then exist in it forever, shoring up the walls and trying to stop it collapsing around you. It's no life.

I think they are wrong in law. I would not get the house. I could force the sale of other assets but I will not have a materially comparable amount of money. He may be entitled to some of my pension (although possibly not much).

You think that? On what basis? Your solicitor told you? In Scotland if you're married then his name on the deeds is irrelevant so at least one part of the legal story needs checking out. And yes you might not get everything you want. But from what you say, you and your children would have a better life in the long run.

And something to watch out for, if any of this information came via your husband - is your husband the kind of very clever autistic bloke who says things he made up on the spot in exactly the same convincing authoritative voice-tone as the obscure things that he really does know inside out? And starts to believe them himself? So you believe the things he tells you because he's right about a lot of things and he gives no sign when he's talking made-up bollocks? I may be off on the wrong track here in your specific situation but that does happen.

Good luck!

There is no hope for you. Your children will soon be free to make their own choices, and I fear you will not like them.

I’ve commented a few times about the fact I’m ND (PDA, ADHD, RSD). I wanted to just reassure you OP as it may seem like you’re in the wrong here based on the responses you have received. You’re not. There are aspects of his behaviour that is being excused by his ND. This isn’t ok as being ND isn’t an excuse to treat others badly (not letting you fix things etc).

HOWEVER, the vast majority of people on this thread are giving you an NT response with NT strategies. This doesn’t work for ND, especially PDA (giving an ultimatum and demanding has the opposite effect due the different wiring of the brain so you will literally get the opposite of what people are telling you because they can’t understand due to having an NT brain).

Empathy is understanding someone else’s thoughts and feelings. NTs share similar feelings in similar scenarios and so empathise with eachother easily. NDs may feel different in certain scenarios (because of the literal differences in the brain - you can’t mind over matter here!) and so have to work harder at understanding the NTs feelings in order to empathise.

I would say you have empathy in spades in that you see beyond the behaviour and empathise with your husband.

Your husband isn’t trying to cause you harm (to some extent because he isn’t trying to find ways to accommodate his needs at the expense of his family) and you understand this. You empathise with his feelings. An NT empathising with an ND is difficult for the same reasons it’s difficult in reverse. So I’d say well done you for doing that for 18 years.

Asking NTs for an empathetic response isn’t going to work here. Most NTs have spent no time trying to understand the ND brain and so can’t empathise. You will only get the solutions you need by asking NDs. Autism Inclusivity on Facebook is the most wonderful resource from empathetic and knowledgeable ND people. Those that lives these lives and know what helps.

The key here is for him to want to recognise his ND and want to accommodate those challenges he faces for the sake of the family though.

Hopefully this makes you understand the lack of empathetic response here (and ignorant too - if he was NT and behaving like this I’d say get rid - but I expect 99% of people that have given you an NT response don’t even know what PDA is let alone entails).

@SiennaT so she and her children should live in a shit hole so as not to upset him? Empathising with someone doesn't have to mean everyone around them bending to their will.
Regardless of his mental health no child should grow up in a property like OP's especially as it is totally avoidable if she can get tradespeople in.
As for saying 'well done ' to the OP - well done for what? Being a martyr to a man's mental health condition for 18 years and subjecting her children to it? Not a badge of honor I would want.

@Menomenon

What were you hoping to get from this thread?

Was it genuinely to hear whether you should take DH's tools away or not?

I think you know that your family set up is unusual.
Throughout all of your posts, I have been thinking 'Who is actually gaining in this family unit?'
I don't think any of you are, not even your DH, as it sounds as if he would carry on regardless of you and DC being there or not.

My gut feeling is that you went to counselling briefly, and the surface was only scratched. I think your husband hated the experience so much that he agreed to be cheerful on days out and around the children. So he did this task and the counselling stopped as the problem was solved.

except it wasn’t. He still suits himself all the time and you have major communication problems.

please, go back and get some counselling yourself, long term. Dig deep and you can have a happy life but you are going to need help to untangle all of this.

please do it for you and your children. All the very best.

@SiennaT

Hopefully this makes you understand the lack of empathetic response here (and ignorant too - if he was NT and behaving like this I’d say get rid - but I expect 99% of people that have given you an NT response don’t even know what PDA is let alone entails).

I have Bipolar, ADHD and more.

If behaviours caused by those conditions negatively affect someone else, let alone children, they are not duty bound to stay with me to show empathy.

I took control of the conditions as much as humanly possible by engaging with medical professionals, finding the right medication (lots of trial and error) and practicing coping skills and strategies. Because I want to be a positive force in my loves ones' lives and don't feel entitled to expect them to enable unhealthy behaviours.

If someone is alcoholic would you have made that post about them and congratulated OP for staying with him and raising children in the home? Would you say that someone should disregard the thoughts of non-alcoholic people like you've suggested OP ignore the thoughts of NT people? Alcoholic is a desperately sad condition. I have huge empathy for alcoholic people as it's a cruel and heartbreaking condition that robs people of so much. But growing up with an alcoholic parent has serious short and long term effects so it is the duty of the other parent to remove their children from an environment in which the alcoholic parent is displaying unhealthy behaviours.

Having a relationship with someone with PDA is incredibly difficult. Exhausting at times (I've known two adults diagnosed) and requiring the partner to pick up almost all of the mental load for the family. Me recognising this isn't me judging them morally or anything, it's a fact of the behaviours caused by PDA. And no partner is obliged to sacrifice their own mental health, the wellbeing of their children and in OP's case financial security, due to their partner's mental health conditions.

One can have huge empathy for someone's mental health and still decide to prioritise that of their own children and even themselves.

This is appallingly bad advice. Another poster projecting their own issues onto a situation where it's not relevant.

He doesn't want to do anything to help himself and his family and is making them live in squalor.

You are excusing child neglect.

Absolutely agree. They should not be living in a hovel to accommodate him. This is why I said in an earlier comment I made that I don’t use my ND as a reason to impact other people. ND isn’t an excuse to affect other people.

i agree that her and her dc’s needs and boundaries are just as important as his.

I’m not saying they aren’t. What I am saying is, his behaviour shouldn’t be attributed to being an arsehole. This is where people are misunderstanding. They think he’s intentionally being an arse (and perhaps he is in some aspects - I can’t say as I don’t know) but from my experience having demands leaves me with overwhelm, anxiety and shutdown. I’m not doing it on purpose. My brain just doesn’t let me. It’s literally wired differently to yours (assuming you’re NT).

What this man needs is understanding and accommodations made to help him work around this behaviour because it’s not that he won’t do it it’s that he can’t. His brain isn’t wired that way.

Imagine we were talking about a physical problem. He had a broken leg for 18 years and the op and the same complaint. Would the response still be the same? He physically can’t accommodate his family’s needs because he doesn’t have accommodations for his own (wheelchair / crutches etc). It’s exactly the same here.

His behaviour is a direct result of being unable to do these things because of the physical differences in his brain. He needs empathy and accommodations to allow him to do the things his family needs.

These accommodations look like, a diagnosis to get professional support, professional therapy, earbuds and sunglasses for sensory overwhelm when out, medication if adhd, even the way we ask questions to PDA people needs to be different.

Does OP need to do all of this for him? No. Does she do it because she empathises? I expect so. Does she need to live like this? No. Does she recognise life could be better if he gets help? Yes. Can NT people that don’t understand ND help? No.

i agree though that it’s bloody tough being the child of an ND parent. I was too. I never brought people home because of shame. That has lasting effects on a person and if the OP decided he isn’t willing to seek help then the dc shouldn’t suffer. However, there are other benefits NT people won’t understand.

ND is usually genetic and so her children may be ND too (not always displaying in the same away). Having a parent that understands your limitations in a non judgemental way is worth it’s weight in gold.

I challenge every person here that has commented but doesn’t know what PDA truly is to have a quick Google and see if it changes your perspective.

I found this website because I wanted to better understand PDA:

www.pdasociety.org.uk/what-is-pda-menu/what-is-demand-avoidance/

Given that this is a lifelong condition, the OP's husband must have been like this when she married him. I wonder if the transition to marriage and children sent him into a downward spiral?

Someone further up the thread asked me what my friends and family thought. The thread moved quite quickly so I didn’t reply but I have been thinking about that overnight, given so many of you have firm views (both parents are child abusers; what would a social worker think; I am a social worker and it’s neglect etc).

My family are 4hrs away so it’s not day-to-day. My lovely mum looks at everything practically (‘once you’ve cleared this, you can do XYZ’) or through the lens of my professional success, particularly when DC were younger (‘so lucky that only one of you needs to work!’). This is also in the context of my siblings who have their own challenges: one has a debilitating condition and one lives with really restricted means. So us having travel/restaurants/living debt-free and enjoying School Sports Day picnics or whatever, really seems extremely fortunate to my family, even against the backdrop described here. I would never complain to them.

I absolutely know what my friends think of DC as my friends will seek me or DH out and congratulate us on having happy, successful DC<proud>. Even my most Amanda-from-Motherland friends have never ever implied that all DC are not cared for and loved or getting support from the family unit, or keen to get away and never come back.

What they think of DH or mine and DH’s relationship is less clear to me. Over the years I have had a couple of ‘what does he do during the day’ comments, but generally my friends include DH in the normal way in plans. (DH doesn’t like going to parties but he is always friendly and polite). I am certain some will judge our house though.

We are saying the same thing in different ways. I agree with everything you’re saying.

I also have made huge changes in my own life too so I don’t impact my family in the way I was impacted as a child.

What I said was he doesn’t seem to have had any support or understanding from professionals etc to get help. That’s what he needs if the OP wants to stay. I’ve spent a lifetime receiving help and researching my own strategies as it sounds like you have. Being ND in an NT world is real I tough and I also congratulate you for being able to accommodate yourself in that respect. PDA is quite different from ADHD though and his strategies will be different.

It sounds like he’s never had help. She’s at breaking point and is asking for help. They’re at the start of the journey that you and I have already taken steps on.

@DirectionToPerfection I’m not projecting, I’m explaining what it like to be PDA. Are you PDA?

Do you invite your friends to your house OP?

@monsteramunch i replied to you above but it didn’t seem to tag you.

This has to be one of the strangest and most troubling aibu posts I have ever read. You live in a run down house that we don’t have any stake in, not sure that’s right if your married, but you state Scottish law is different. Your children are ashamed and won’t have friends around, neglect and emotional abuse right there but you choose to ignore it. You appear to be in a one sided relationship with a man who does not love you or care for your welfare; he allows you to do all the work whilst he messes around clearing paths yet degrades his own family by living in squalor. Read your post back to yourself, you choose to gaslight yourself over your situation. What are you looking for from this post if you have no intention of resolving this and improving the lives of you and your children? You need to leave this man

What they think of DH or mine and DH’s relationship is less clear to me. Over the years I have had a couple of ‘what does he do during the day’ comments, but generally my friends include DH in the normal way in plans.

Have you ever told anyone about the abuse you mentioned?

Does anyone come round to your house?
Family?
Friends?
DC friends?

@pomers
I agree with you, the OP is ridiculous, convincing herself that school picnics, board games make everything fabulous. I'd be heartbroken if my kids were ashamed of our house and mortified to have a lazy feckless partner.
OP is deluded to think this won't affect her DC, I'm embarrassed for her that she's so blinded.

BTW my DH and DBs - academically high achieving, polite etc.......... Doesn't mean that they have a close relationship with FIL now or MIL when she was alive.

In fact 1 of them got given an OBE this year. His dad went to the ceremony, which I thought it was nice of DBIL to invite him. The DF said it was 'fine' - he literally just went to the ceremony, they spent the minimum amount of time together. No celebration, no meal out, nothing. I just thought it was a shame.

Not sure I said that board games and picnics make everything fabulous. If everything was fabulous I wouldn’t be posting.

I include details of things we enjoy as a family as some posters have asked ‘What does anyone get out of this?’ type questions. So these answers are just part of that. And also to add balance to what DC might view as their childhood/teens. Some of the very passionate posters seem quite keen to argue the toss on that point.

That doesn’t take away from the issues. It’s just meant to add context. The counselling helped DH join in because he loves DC and can understand the benefit of doing these individual things for them.

You want us to magic up a way to give your husband a personality transplant. It's not going to happen.

This ^.

I'm not unsympathetic having spent years with someone who had a very complex relationship with a house.

However, you are a mass of contradictions and assumptions yourself and the bald fact is that no matter how much you love your DH or keep telling yourself that he loves you and the DC, he is as he is. You have to decide whether this grim existence at home and the effect it has on you and your DC takes precedence over everything else.

Imagine we were talking about a physical problem. He had a broken leg for 18 years and the op and the same complaint. Would the response still be the same?

Yes, if he had not proactively been seeking treatment for the broken leg despite the effects it was having on his family, including his children.

So you want to show him there's a problem?

Leave. For 6 months.

What will he do then? He's worked before, is fiendishly clever and has a degree. Hopefully he'll get a job. Acknowledge some changes are needed and you can move back on new terms.

You say you have a good wage, rent somewhere. It may be smaller but at least your dc won't be ashamed to bring people over.

Or continue to be his doormat.