To not want to meet with children there.

[Ger1atricMillennial]

AIBU to want to meet with my friend without her children there?

I live in a foreign country and have been very isolated since moving and during the pandemic I went on medication for depression and worked through it with therapy. I have been off it for 9 months and the therapy has helped me move forward and I feel so much better.

One of my closest friends from high school has family in the place that I live, and has come over during the rest of her maternity leave. We have been close in the past, but in the last few years the contact has got less frequent- no doubt due to the distance + life. However; over the last few years everytime we speak on the phone her toddler interrupts or throws a tantrum, and a few times I was on speakerphone and I didn't know and her husband and mum were in the room. This was when I wasn't very well, so I lost some trust there.

Since my friend has arrived I have met up with her twice; both times she had her toddler and breastfeeding baby. As you can imagine it has been very hard to have any meaningful converstation with her and after both times I have just felt so lonely and unimportant afterwards.

She offered to meet up for brunch, but when I asked if she was bringing her children (more specifically the toddler)- she said most likely. I then declined stating that I would be happy to meet up when she feels ready to without her children. That was 2 days ago and I haven't recieved a reply.

I really felt the loss yesterday and cried alot. I understand her bringing the baby and would be more supportive if she was a single mum, but her husband and his family are here and they love spending time with the children. I am also a little bit sensitive to the fact that if I was a man I wouldn't even have to think about this problem at all if I asked to meet with my friend.

At this stage I wouldn't feel comfortable disucssing the above with my friend directly. I think she may be struggling alot more that she is letting on and adding to it would make it worse or she just wouldn't be able to engage. But since I can't speak to her in any meanginful way; I don't know this for sure.

So as I dont have children; can you tell me if this is ones of those things that against the laws of nature and is outrageous for me to think about asking her; or is it her personal choice and has anyone actually navigated this situation successfully before?

I am over the emotional part of the loss, so be as honest and direct as you like with your feedback.

God I hope that’s not true. I’m going on mat leave this month and will very much be leaving the kid at home with my DH to have a life when I want to. I’m sure he’ll be leaving them with me to enjoy his free time with friends too.

@BanjoVio you might be, you'll find out soon! Congratulations x

From what you've said I see 2 scenarios. Doesnt want to leave the kids .or husband and family not very observant with small kids.

To be blunt, how would you feel if she asked you to not bring your depression when you meet?

Having 2 little kids occupies a lot of headspace and time/energy. Devoting 90 minutes to support a friends depression is harder than you realise, and unlikely to be enough for you. Sorry, I hope you can find a support network xx

Mother of 3 kids including a small baby. I also work FT. DH is very very hands on- other than breastfeeding very much an equal parent. In my spare time my first priority is myself- I take a long bath, read a book, listen to music or go for a walk. I might also want to spend time with my DH. Only when I have done that do I have the spare mental capacity to hang out with other people and listen to their problems.

Last night I got up 4 times between 9-6. Twice to feed the baby, once because the 6 year old was coughing so much he needed settling and once because the baby was crying. DH is also quite sick and had high fever otherwise he would have chipped in. If you asked me to go to an ‘adult venue’ and then do this at night I would just not be able to. I don’t have the spare capacity or energy for this.

My closest friends when I was in the trenches have come to me. They have brought dinner, held the baby, waited for the toddler to sleep, heated some food and made sure that I then did have the mental capacity for them. Even with a very supportive husband, the sheer load of 3 kids, a job etc is enough that I have very very little bandwidth.

I think if the loss of the friendship would be a big deal to you then you agree to see her with her very young kids for now. They won't be young forever. If you insist on seeing her without them and it puts a lot of stress on her during what is a very difficult time for her then the friendship may not continue. I think you're vastly underestimating just how tiring a toddler and a breastfed baby will be. She may also be too tired and just have no bandwidth to listen to you unload.

It's hard having a catch up and conversation,
with a toddler demanding your attention all the time - I don't think I ever had a meaningful conversation with my daughter once my Dgc was born. He was always there interrupting the conversation and demanding something or other. It was a pain in the neck tbh and my own grandchild who I love to bits.
I feel your pain OP.

It also really smacks of “I’ll be your friend as long as your life doesn’t change, your priorities don’t change, and if you can no longer behave as if you don’t have children then I won’t be your friend. Hit me up once these inconvenient children are out of the way, because I don’t want to deal with them, and you obvs don’t need friends in the meantime and should be totally willing to accept my conditions”

Well, if the friend gets no benefit out of seeing the OP, and the OP gets no benefit out of seeing the friend with children in tow, then there is no point in them meeting up. So why is the OP getting stick for cancelling? It would just be two women sitting there getting nothing out of it.

I had a 2 year gap between mine and very much remember juggling bf baby and toddler. There is a big jump from 1-2 if you have a small age gap and the toddler is demanding (mine was!). Basically in the daytime I would meet up with other friends with their kids, and for my childfree friends, I went out in the evening. This was doable by the time the baby was something like 10 weeks. But I didn't do it too often as I was tired and also didn't have a lot of disposable cash for going out.

I think I ONCE met a friend on her own with the kids at that age, and it was awful. I couldn't meet their needs and I couldn't have a decent conversation with my friend. Just pointless for both of us, and I didn't do it again.

Some mothers are able to get away easily from their little ones to meet friends, but even if they can, it won't be every day, and they will have other priorities, e.g. a nap, the gym, see other friends. You say your friend may be struggling - so maybe it is actually difficult for her to leave the kids - or maybe she can't mentally cope with an intense catch up with you.

Haven't read all replies but I would tread extremely carefully here if you want to keep your friendship. I think you're doing great trying to heal yourself and it's good thar you have a boundary in place in that you want to spend adult time together but her children are a part of her life and her choice whether to bring along or not come. Your boundaries and asking the question is within your control but her response, thoughts and feelings are out if your control. Her boundary may be that she brings the children.

You cannot compete with her children. They will always be her first priority now.

There is nothing wrong with your request, a long overdue catch up with no children there sounds reasonable to me. I would only see this as unreasonable if she wasn’t able to leave the kids with anyone. As someone with kids, and a clingy 1 year old at that, I would most definitely leave the kids for a few hours for a nice catch up because I would most certainly welcome the break from the kids and if they’re with family they will be ok. You’re not asking her to leave them with a complete stranger.

@cantbfucked I think the issue is that she shouldn’t be asking her to leave them at all. It’s up to a a mother if she wants to leave her children. I like to meet friends without my children or theirs but none of us request this of each other.

I think you are not a true friend at all here. If you really were then you’d understand that she can’t leave a breastfed baby and her two small humans are her main priority in life right now. Not you! I think because you don’t have children you really don’t appreciate the situation fully. Stop feeling hurt because things aren’t going exactly the way you want, she has a different life that you need to adapt to if you want to remain friends. Show her some support and try and help her even! Interact with the children, she’s probably knackered!! They won’t be this young or dependant on her forever. You are being quite selfish.

Your life stages aren’t compatible at the moment. She doesn’t appear to feel comfortable leaving her children, I was like that.

OP Have you met her husband?

It sounds like you might have offended her. I personally didn't feel ready to leave my daughter when I was breastfeeding until she was a few months old and it wouldn't be fair for her to keep one child with her and leave the other.

Remember some babies refuse to take a bottle and some toddlers struggle to be away from their mam, especially if they are teething. My daughter is 18 months and over the last few weeks I can't have a pee in peace.

Children wreck friendships. It’s just a truth few are willing to admit. You might think that you are inseparable friends with X, but once she has kids, you won’t get a decent 5-minutes with her until at least the kids start school. Unless you have kids of your own and can re-bond over talking about/watching over the kids.

It sounds like you need to pay a therapist to listen to your problems. This does not sound like a reciprocal or fair relationship.

The fact that you can't understand she can't simply leave the bf baby for logistical and biological reasons suggests you are in a place where you are so self occupied you cannot entertain any headspace or understanding for anyone else.

I can't see anyone wanting to spend their free time doing that.

Love the username. Are you an Iliza Dan by any chance?

anyway YANBU to want to see her without her kids but she INBU to not want to see you without them.

I think you say she's on mat leave too so this is about time with her children. I have a toddler and didn't leave him at home at that stage. I told friends if they wanted to meet it would be daytime and with the baby. It was up to them if they wanted to. Now is different but it's her choice as much as yours.

Iliza fan

For a decade I was the one without kids and spent hours with my friends and theirs kids, but most always managed to make time for us on our own. Now I do have a child not a lot has changed and I still see friends without her (and theirs). Friendships are really bloody important, the toddler can live for a few hours without his mother especially when his other parent is around. I am aghast at some of the self important replies here. There’s compromIse and there’s being a bit flexible to support an old friend. You are NOT being unreasonable here, ridiculous !

I think it's quite rude to tell someone so bluntly you don't want to meet them if they bring their children along. If one of my friends was to tell me something like that, I'd feel offended and I'd need some time to figure out what to reply.
You could have found a more subtle way to ask for adult only time eg "how about I come over with some cake after kids are in bed so we can have a proper chat?"
It sounds like you need a lot of support and you're relying on this friend to provide it to you, it sounds like she has a lot on her plate too and you're not even thinking of her.
You fail to mention how old the baby is, and you are not even considering that your friend could be having a challenging time PP. Saying you understand having kids is "tough" just doesn't cut it. Maybe she didn't think you'd need to offload your problems and vent to her. Maybe that's not what she wants or need from this "friendship".
Their family arrangements around childcare are none of your concerns, what her husband and family does or doesn't do with the children and free time isn't your business. Maybe she isn't ready to leave her toddler, maybe she doesn't want to! Believe it or not, some mothers do not crave to leave their kids behind to have a solo outing. Some do, and there's no right or wrong but she shouldn't made feel like it's not normal. If that doesn't work for you and the kind of friendship you're looking for, that's fine and it means you need to look for a different friend.
Maybe her toddler is still adjusting with the new sibling and would feel left out if mum went out with the baby only. Maybe your friend feels guilty not to take them both as she's afraid to upset the eldest. Plus in your text you said children plural, and that means the breastfed baby isn't welcome either, which to be honest is a bizarre suggestion in my opinion. You were inconsiderate about lots of things that could be going on in her life as you seem more focused on yourself and what you need from her.

I have a toddler and rarely leave her due to anxiety around leaving her with anyone. I am somewhat comfortable leaving her with her dad, my DP. I am comfortable discussing my mental health with my friends though and if I was asked to leave my DD I would explain why I would find that difficult. Maybe keep in mind that there could be more going on which is why she won’t leave her children