For my arguing with my MIL on Christmas Day?

[MamaCathy73]

Hi everyone,

My DC came out as non-binary last year and now asks that they be referred to by they/them pronouns. I do not think this is a big deal, and so I happily oblige even if I do not fully understand. My MIL is a strong Christian, and despite knowing that DC does not want to be referred to as he/him, does it anyway. She often says things like "gender is what's in your pants, not your brain", amongst other clichés. On Christmas Day, she was particularly bad, and she was clearly going out of her way to invalidate DC's gender identity as much as possible. After I corrected her (because DC was visibly uncomfortable), she began to rant about how much he hates Stonewall and this "transing" business right in front of them. This did not sit right with me at all, so I got very angry with her (lots of expletives). Anyway, DH did not like how I reacted, saying that I ruined Christmas, and that I shouldn't have spoken to his mother like that. I see his point, but I am upset that he didn't want to defend our child from MIL.

Interested to know how others would have reacted in that situation.

I would have said nothing in public and would have changed the subject. Privately I would have told MIL that we have decided not to comment and we would prefer her to stay away from the subject as it was a sensitive area. I would also be saying to my child that MIL may not use their preferred pronouns and that was up to her. I would not have shouted and sworn.

You swore at her? Multiple times? She was being a bitch and should of course have been told to shut it, but swearing at her loses you the moral high ground.

And when those feelings lead to men in women's single sex spaces, sports, prisons and children being rendered infertile are we allowed to care?

The people who object to this are protecting children from a lifetime of female exposure to male wants and desires and damaging surgery.

Go and look up at the effects of testosterone on healthy female bodies before you start spouting bekind nonsense.

This

I’m completely with your MiL and believe it’s all nonsense. You can’t change your sex and I wouldn’t be indulging my child but would be having very open and honest conversations with them and educating them. However MIL was wrong to bring it up the way she did on Christmas Day and I would have had a quiet word to ask her to stop, and just avoid using pronouns at all.

Shes not wrong to voice her concerns though. What if it goes further than non-binary and there’s talk of hormone therapy or surgery? If I was her I would be very worried for a child being indulged in this.

Your MIL is right but could have been a bit more tactful so as to avoid upsetting your son on Christmas Day.

No wonder you don't understand non-binary or plural pronouns (they/them) being used to refer to a single person. It's made-up nonsense.

Gender Identity was only invented in the 1960s (by a very dodgy bloke called John Money) and the concept of non-binary is even newer.

It seems to be used by children and young people who feel that they don't fit into sexist stereotypes (eg boys who aren't macho and girls who aren't girly) but instead of wanting to smash stereotypes (like feminists have wanted to do for decades) the young people who believe in gender identity, accept the validity of these stereotypes but put themselves outside them and call themselves non-binary.

If a child of mine said they were non-binary, I wouldn't use their preferred pronouns because I would be worried in case they went on to say that they were trans and ended up going down the dangerous route of medicalisation and surgery.

I don't know if you have heard of the Cass report which led to the closure of the Tavistock clinic but one of the findings was that socially transitioning children and young people (eg by using preferred pronouns) is not a neutral act.

Your MIL sounds like she’s done her research to be honest with you. She’s being blunt but she’s not wrong.

My DD spent the last couple of years (yr 8 & 9) genuinely believing she was supposed to have been a boy. It wasn’t a happy time to say the least. She wouldnt look in the mirror, only wore boys and mens clothes and photos of her as a little girl (in her princess bedroom she begged for!) made her anxious and tearful. She’s only recently admitted she got sucked in by the tik-tok and YouTube influencers and other girls in her year doing the same. Funnily enough it was a woman on tok-tok who made her see that it’s an ideology and she’s come back.

My DD is angry and disgusted that she was convinced of this and said the last couple of years would have been a lot less depressing if she hadn’t spent the whole time agonising over it.

I didn't actually realise people were so judgemental in the modern world. I thought we'd moved on and people can live in a world and be happy and confident about who they are.
I also thought a parent should support their child no matter what. What a sad place the world is.

I agree with your MIL.
your MIL was wrong to argue about it on Christmas Day.
you were wrong to be rude to your mil.

non binary I assume does not conform to sexist stereotypes. I do agree with this - I didn’t my teens in the 1980s not wearing pink and wanting to learn woodwork. However biologically I’m female. I just don’t confirm. Why can’t your son be male but not conform?

You’re both wrong. Gender isn’t a universally acknowledged fact, it’s a belief system. Your child’s genitals relate to their sex, it’s their biological sex which is a fact. She can’t be made to use pronouns that don’t align to the facts she sees, that’s an unreasonable demand. This won’t be the only time your child sees they can’t dictate other peoples language. She should have used their name and left pronouns out all together.

You should be used to dealing with other people’s understandable reluctance to compelled speech and find a more mature way to express yourself. Swearing at your MIL hasn’t helped yours or your child’s cause. You’ll look defensive and illogical.

Feel sorry for your DH who may not be as on board with your approach to your child’s current confusion as you’d hope.

Stone walls/ mermaids etc are quite worrying and you said you didn't quite understand it all..

It's shame your mother in law didn't gently explain her stance instead causing a scene but if she's up to date with it , and you are not she's probably incredibly afraid?

Oh do piss off.

OP. You did the right thing. children need to know parents have their back, and will stand up for them.

I do agree with this. You should have spoken to her and asked her to use your DCs name, rather than pronouns but screaming and swearing when she won't conform to something she doesn't believe in is not the correct way to be.

I don't fall to either side of the debate here, i think of your child requests to be referred to as they/them then there is no reason not to. From your POV you are doing as tour DC asks and from the MIL POV her opinion doesn't change by saying then instead of he, but it does make a huge difference to your DC. That is who is important here.

I wonder if all the 'I wouldn't tolerate it' posters have been in that position, because all I could do was love my child.

👏👏👏

Agreed

Whether you agree or not, it's about being supportive.

The MIL was not being supportive to their grandchild... and probably succeeded in alienating that child so she didn't actually achieve very much.

Being tolerant is about respecting others' views, whether you agree with them or not.

I would have shut the conversation down and told everyone to get on with Christmas.

I agree with your MIL though.

Mumsnet will generally agree with your MIL. But in the real world, where people not arseholes and actually care about others and don’t get to hide behind a keyboard (!) most people would be on your side.

You 💯 did the right thing and your child will thank you for it for the rest of their lives. They will always remember you stood up for them.

Your MIL is outdated and wrong.

Hmm nice try.

The OP not come back? Hmm.

A bit goady, if real then you were both wrong

I need someone to explain how you talk to someone and call them Them/They
Dont you just use the persons name ?

And if they aren't around and within hearing distance, how will They know you said...he/her ?

OP we all want to protect our children but your child is either male or female.