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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

For my arguing with my MIL on Christmas Day?

259 replies

MamaCathy73 · 30/12/2022 19:40

Hi everyone,

My DC came out as non-binary last year and now asks that they be referred to by they/them pronouns. I do not think this is a big deal, and so I happily oblige even if I do not fully understand. My MIL is a strong Christian, and despite knowing that DC does not want to be referred to as he/him, does it anyway. She often says things like "gender is what's in your pants, not your brain", amongst other clichés. On Christmas Day, she was particularly bad, and she was clearly going out of her way to invalidate DC's gender identity as much as possible. After I corrected her (because DC was visibly uncomfortable), she began to rant about how much he hates Stonewall and this "transing" business right in front of them. This did not sit right with me at all, so I got very angry with her (lots of expletives). Anyway, DH did not like how I reacted, saying that I ruined Christmas, and that I shouldn't have spoken to his mother like that. I see his point, but I am upset that he didn't want to defend our child from MIL.

Interested to know how others would have reacted in that situation.

OP posts:
Redebs · 30/12/2022 20:46

Edinburghmusing · 30/12/2022 20:35

For sure. This totally happened.

This is totally not a trans activist who thinks that bringing in a MIL argument fillls the mumsnet bingo card.

and all their trans activity comrades ready with their comments. (Use of their as in this case sex unknown)

OP you’ve TOTALLY convinced me. Children should get to decide what sex there are. I will let me ten year old daughter the good news that if she just says the magic word she can opt of puberty and getting her period.

Or this

MarysGirlChildWasLate4ChristmasDay · 30/12/2022 20:46

BumbleShyBee · 30/12/2022 20:46

Where did you go, OP?

Twitter innit.
Screenshots.

hattie43 · 30/12/2022 20:47

Afterfire · 30/12/2022 20:12

Mumsnet will generally agree with your MIL. But in the real world, where people not arseholes and actually care about others and don’t get to hide behind a keyboard (!) most people would be on your side.

You 💯 did the right thing and your child will thank you for it for the rest of their lives. They will always remember you stood up for them.

Your MIL is outdated and wrong.

Actually I don't think they would . Even the young people in my workplace think it's all bollox and attention seeking .

OmiOmy · 30/12/2022 20:47

BumbleShyBee · 30/12/2022 20:46

Where did you go, OP?

Mmmm. Not suspicious at all, is it?

EasterIsland · 30/12/2022 20:48

After I corrected her (because DC was visibly uncomfortable), she began to rant about how much he hates Stonewall and this "transing" business right in front of them. This did not sit right with me at all, so I got very angry with her (lots of expletives)

So you swore at another adult because she refuses to lie? Your DC is biologically male, however he 'identifies.' He needs talking therapy to work out why his mind is so at odds with the reality of his body. But you required a woman to lie about what she knows. Hmmmm.

EasterIssland · 30/12/2022 20:50

EasterIsland · 30/12/2022 20:48

After I corrected her (because DC was visibly uncomfortable), she began to rant about how much he hates Stonewall and this "transing" business right in front of them. This did not sit right with me at all, so I got very angry with her (lots of expletives)

So you swore at another adult because she refuses to lie? Your DC is biologically male, however he 'identifies.' He needs talking therapy to work out why his mind is so at odds with the reality of his body. But you required a woman to lie about what she knows. Hmmmm.

Nice name @EasterIsland

sqirrelfriends · 30/12/2022 20:51

Horrible behaviour from your MIL. I would have tried not to swear at her but we all have our limits and there’s only so many times you can ask nicely.

SuperPup86 · 30/12/2022 20:51

Many posters don’t like anything that is not men women and this unluckily think they’ve got the right to dictate what others should feel about themselves right

To the contrary.

I think everyone should be able to 'feel about themselves' whatever they wish. I'm not interested. It becomes problematic when someone thinks they can compel others to join in in their make believe, to the extent they feel they can demand others refer to them in a term recognised as being plural which is just nonsense.

Afterfire · 30/12/2022 20:53

hattie43 · 30/12/2022 20:47

Actually I don't think they would . Even the young people in my workplace think it's all bollox and attention seeking .

Show quote history

Then I’m genuinely very surprised. I have never met anyone who is so intolerant in real life as I have on Mumsnet. And I don’t live in some diverse, vibrant city. I live in the countryside. I think generally most people want to live and let live, thankfully. My dd aged 19 is at university. She has two trans friends. It’s not even an issue for us or anyone we know.

FuckNuggets · 30/12/2022 20:54

Does your religious MIL insist you pray whenever you come to her house? I'm assuming you're not religious and would object to that? Kinda the same thing, expecting her to constantly remember to use "they/them" for her grandson.

She shouldn't have turned it into a thing on Christmas Day. Equally you could have dealt with it without swearing.

Teach your son it's fine to be whatever you are and still be a boy. Also encourage him to grow a backbone because if he insists he's "non-binary" going forward he's going to come across a lot of pushback from the outside world. Getting upset at someone using the right sexed pronouns for him is pathetic.

KickHimInTheCrotch · 30/12/2022 20:55

Whatever your views on your MILS behaviour the correct course of action is to model to your DC how to deal with it assertively. So remaining calm, listening, attempting to show your respect for conflicting views and opinions and making your point clearly without screeching and swearing. If your DC continues to choose this path this won't be the last time they meet this type of challenge - they may well remember how you addressed it. Are you happy for them to repeat your behaviour?

WineDarkNo308 · 30/12/2022 20:55

SSDDagain88 · 30/12/2022 19:47

Surely she is allowed her opinion on things like this as much as you and you DC and just because you don’t agree doesn’t make her opinion any less wrong

Based on this theory if you use the pronouns she/her I can completely disregard your wishes and refer to you as he/him because I’m allowed my opinion as much as you and just because you don’t agree it doesn’t make my opinion any less wrong.

Unsure33 · 30/12/2022 20:56

Hmm , I don’t think this is true . But in summary we are all entitled to our opinions but it does not make them facts . And if you know there are two opposing views you should probably discourage discussion and leave it at that .

WoolyMammoth55 · 30/12/2022 20:56

This reply has been deleted

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MrsSkylerWhite · 30/12/2022 20:57

Your MIL was out of order. Your husband needs to step up and support his child,

oakleaffy · 30/12/2022 20:58

MarysGirlChildWasLate4ChristmasDay · 30/12/2022 19:50

What is non binary op? Do you mean your child doesn't conform to gender stereotypes?

You do realise that it's not progressive to insist girls only like pink and being dainty and boys only like farting and football. And insisting your child is non binary because they don't fit into a narrow box is reinforcing those stereotypes.

Your way is a safeguarding nightmare. Leads to the erosion of same sex attraction and children making themselves infertile. Look up Keira Bell. Read the Cass report. Read the newspapers about how Mermaids and Stonewall champions have been implicated in legal and safeguarding scandals.

Your mil is right. You are so wrong.

Another for Team MIL.

Tanith · 30/12/2022 20:58

I suggest you invest in a set of scrabble or monopoly for the next family gathering.

MaydinEssex · 30/12/2022 21:00

RandomPerson42 · 30/12/2022 20:24

You should be asking who brainwashed your child…

There definitely seems a lot of brainwashing going on these days. I don't acknowledge the non binary trend at all, I won't be bullied into using the preferred pronouns either.

blibblibs · 30/12/2022 21:00

@OriginalUsername2 if you know would you mind sharing the tik tok'er who managed to help your daughter see the light?
We're going through the same thing at the moment and obviously I'm just a terfy dinosaur who knows nothing so anything that might help would be good.

umberellaonesie · 30/12/2022 21:03

I would have politely asked her to leave if in my house or left if in hers.

Supernormative · 30/12/2022 21:04

TinaYouFatLard · 30/12/2022 19:45

You should not be enforcing compelled speech on another person.

This. I'm with your MIL and DH so YWBU.

TheaBrandt · 30/12/2022 21:08

God this is an utterly forbidden topic it’s utterly poisonous. You either believe in the ideology or you don’t and never the Twain shall meet. Certainly not a topic for Christmas Day.

WishIhadacrystalball · 30/12/2022 21:11

The shouting and swearing is where this went wrong. Not the right way to deal with an issue and not a good example for your dc to learn how to respond to any difficulties faced in the future.

However, I fully agree you should have defended your child and they will grow up knowing they their mother had their back. This is what’s important. I’d be angry at my DH too for not supporting them in this situation.

I think you owe mil an apology for your swearing and shouting but be firm and reiterate that she must respect you child’s choices.

OnlyTheWeedsGrow · 30/12/2022 21:11

You know, OP, you misgendered your MIL in your OP….

“After I corrected her (because DC was visibly uncomfortable), she began to rant about how much he hates Stonewall and this "transing" business right in front of them.”

Delphinium20 · 30/12/2022 21:12

We only have your word, OP that how your MIL spoke to your child was rude. From her perspective it could have been a loving intervention. She may see your affirmation as leading her grandchild down the very dangerous road of sterility, heavy porn use, heart disease, cancer risk, bone loss, and depression. From her point of view, she's probably terrified that non-binary is just the first step to an unhappy life. If your child was announcing he was a pothead and you were okay with it, MIL might have acted in the same way.

I have relatives and friends who have children with various gender identities. I try my best to follow the parents' lead regarding requested names and pronouns, but there is one child who is particularly vile and rude to EVERYONE...the mother practically cheerleads this behavior and thinks anyone who isn't one hundred percent complimenting the child on their 'beautiful and gorgeous' presentation (which is anything but) is evil. I can't stomach hanging with them anymore because the mom is as delusional as her child - and both are becoming more and more anti-social. It's made me sad as she's losing friends and so is her child.

I'm not saying this is you, OP. But some parents of gender identity kids become really insufferable in a misguided attempt to defend their children against a GREAT ENEMY. In reality, they mistake even the slightest lack of enthusiasm as a war against their kid.

Either way, your child's identity shouldn't have been discussed at Christmas.