To feel aggrieved that I've lost a friendship over anti vax

[VisaGeezer]

I've recently had a fall out with a friend of about 11 years due to not agreeing with/challenging her anti vax opinions

We don't see each other often these days and I wasn't aware of these opinions before. They include;

Covid vaccine is killing young people, who are dropping dead at rates never seen before.

It's causing miscarriages.

It's causing lots of health problems.

Pziser lied and said it prevented transmission. (I checked this and they actually didn't).

The World Economic Forum (?) is taking over.

MMR vaccine causes Autism.

The Anish community doesn't take MMR vaccine and had no autism.

Various stuff about Trans issues (kids being transed) which actually agreed with.

Pharmaceutical companies are all evil and have political, economic etc agendas.

COVID was created in a lab, initially in the US, moved to China due to safety issues etc.

Any data released by anyone refuting the claims about COVID has been bought, is false etc

Doctors who said unvaccinated ppl were more likely to end up in ICU were bought/under the thumb and lying.

The Member of palace staff (subsequently "retired") who questioned the black lady during the event there about her origins and moved/touche her hair was - due to age etc - not being racist or offensive ..... I said grabbing and moving her hair combined with the questioning about her origin, nationality etc was extremely intrusive. She said it wasn't, grabbing someone's crotch would be extremely intrusive, I said that would be sexual assault, not "extremely intrusive".

During this conversation my frustration, exasperation and lack of agreement became more and more obvious ....she told me I needed to read about things, do my research before dismissing these things etc etc . It escalated to me walking off.

I have since apologised for walking off, with no response. I feel the friendship is over.

An I right to feel aggrieved, should I have been more tactful? Would the friendship have blown up over stuff like this anyway?

*The World Economic Forum (?) is taking over.

I should amend that to "trying to take over"

You are being unreasonable to have had this discussion. Surely you know there is no rational debate with someone spouting conspiracy theories.

Just move on. There is no friendship while she is on this path.

Well, it's always sad to lose a friendship; but it sounds as though this person is so deep in conspiracy theories that they can't think rationally,

She also told me maybe I should be more concerned about COVID causing miscarriages if I try to have another child.

I am 46 and had risk reduction surgery that removed my fallopian tubes a couple of years ago; she knew/knows about that .... I was mind boggled to be having that said to me.

Also recently the school had said they think my child has some Asd traits; I don't know if I agree, but I wouldn't even be able to talk to her about that without being aware she probably thinks our choice to give out child the mmr vaccine could've caused it.

YABU. Can't you just discuss things in an adult way and agree to disagree?

Sounds like a nut job

That's not possible with people with very polarised opinions/beliefs. It can work if you both agree not to even discuss it and are mature enough to avoid the conversation, but in reality, that hardly ever happens. It's the same with any extreme view points whether it's covid, or religion, or similar. The most extreme people simply don't have it in them to keep quiet and just have to impose their views on you.

I have a completely batshit anti vax cousin. I knew they were odd anyway but Covid brought it all out. We are now completely NC, which is easy as they don’t live in the same country as me. But other than at a funeral we expect to have relatively soon of an elderly family member, I won’t see them again.

They are free to think whatever they like but I don’t have to entertain it and I don’t want their way of thinking around my child. I’m tolerant of different views usually, have friends across the political spectrum (no extremism though left or right) but I think my cousins views are dangerous and some of the things they have done to their own children I would consider abusive. So they are no longer family as far as I am concerned. I can’t reconcile it at all.

They always say "do your research", they mean "watch YouTube videos of random people who spout such nonsense and back it up with the source of 'trust me bro'"

Someone that deep in would be impossible to have a conversation with about practically everything.

Its sad that you've lost a friend, but you've lost her to conspiracy theories anyway unfortunately.

Read the book The Herd.

It's really interesting and shows both sides of the debate and some of the reasons behind them.

I'm extremely pro-vax by the way.

It depends what you value more, being right or an 11 year friendship?

As I said above! If we met and talked about whatever was happening with us, I'd have to lie by omission about eg the above issue with my child/the school.

Because she would then say (or if she managed not to say, I'd still know she was thinking; you might've caused that because you went like a sheep and got your dd the mmr vaccine because you haven't "opened your eyes" (a phrase she used).

Is it possible to have a truly decent friendship with someone who you have to avoid talking about all manner of issues with, think through everything you say beforehand, not be able to talk about what's bothering you etc.

I find in friendships generally differences of opinion don’t really matter if they’re relatively minor - I like summer days whereas they like winter nights, we disagree on who should’ve won strictly etc - but when it becomes ‘big stuff’ it can unfortunately break things down as you’re just too differently aligned. Conspiracy theories often fall into the latter as your worldviews and theirs are so opposing. It’s a shame but just the reality, unless you have a more casual friendship where you never talk about politics or current events.

she told me I needed to read about things, do my research before dismissing these things etc etc

Standard response, I'm afraid. If you'd asked what research she'd probably have told you to google it. The daftness of that never seems to occur to them.

The only sensible thing to do with conspiracy theorists is to totally ignore them.
My ex husband was one and quite honestly I have no idea how somebody who can read and understand text can be so bloody stupid.

I had my first covid jab two years ago next month. According to Vernon Coleman I'm supposed to drop dead next month. That's if Klaus Schab hasn't made himself world ruler (also according to Coleman). If Schwab really wants to take over the world I bet he's kicking himself he didn't move the day of HM's funeral, when practically every head of state was in the Abbey. Imagine, all he had to do to get untrammelled power is bribe a couple of vergers to lock the doors.....😆

They always say "do your research

She could see I was not on board with looking into the things she mentioned in depth ... She thought this was because I won't; I'm lazy minded, I want to be blinkered etc.

I explsined it was partly because that could turn into a PhD level research project which you'd never get clear answers on ... Or if you got clear answers, anti vaxers would still say the data you based them in was lies/false.

I looked into one thing (the psizer claim" and saw that it was as I expected; not true. A smartarss twat mep acted like he'd caught psizer out in a lie, or some governments out in a lie. He didn't. He just amused a psizer employee to confirm what they'd already said. They hadn't tested it for transmission, they weren't asked to. If governments based advice on getting the vaccine to prevent transmission they did so on v encouraging studies done after it was released .... Then with later variants, the studies weren't anywhere near as encouraging but maybe the message wasn't withdrawn clearly.

The fact I had to waste my time looking into that frustrates me, and she would no doubt still not agree even if I presented that to her.

Very apt user name

Our children's lives are forever ruined because so many of you blindly follow what you're told

Not like you, eh? you know the truth.

I think lots of friendships ended over this. If you can't have civil conversation anymore about those topic, the hell with it. I think it's hard to have successful friendship when your opinions are so different- just like in marriage.

He just ambushed* a psizer employee to confirm what they'd already said.

There are some people who are beyond reason. I couldn't be friends with someone like that. The OP is not being Unreasonable.

I have a friend who is anti-abortion. We never discuss it, I respect her position even though I vehemently disagree with it, but she is also a dedicated animal lover and all round thoughtful and loving person, so for her I think all life is sacred. But then she’s a reasonable person and doesn’t have an extreme, conspiracist mindset.

I wouldn’t be able to be friends with someone like Marjorie Taylor-Greene for example as she’s nutty and full of hate.