To feel aggrieved that I've lost a friendship over anti vax

[VisaGeezer]

I've recently had a fall out with a friend of about 11 years due to not agreeing with/challenging her anti vax opinions

We don't see each other often these days and I wasn't aware of these opinions before. They include;

Covid vaccine is killing young people, who are dropping dead at rates never seen before.

It's causing miscarriages.

It's causing lots of health problems.

Pziser lied and said it prevented transmission. (I checked this and they actually didn't).

The World Economic Forum (?) is taking over.

MMR vaccine causes Autism.

The Anish community doesn't take MMR vaccine and had no autism.

Various stuff about Trans issues (kids being transed) which actually agreed with.

Pharmaceutical companies are all evil and have political, economic etc agendas.

COVID was created in a lab, initially in the US, moved to China due to safety issues etc.

Any data released by anyone refuting the claims about COVID has been bought, is false etc

Doctors who said unvaccinated ppl were more likely to end up in ICU were bought/under the thumb and lying.

The Member of palace staff (subsequently "retired") who questioned the black lady during the event there about her origins and moved/touche her hair was - due to age etc - not being racist or offensive ..... I said grabbing and moving her hair combined with the questioning about her origin, nationality etc was extremely intrusive. She said it wasn't, grabbing someone's crotch would be extremely intrusive, I said that would be sexual assault, not "extremely intrusive".

During this conversation my frustration, exasperation and lack of agreement became more and more obvious ....she told me I needed to read about things, do my research before dismissing these things etc etc . It escalated to me walking off.

I have since apologised for walking off, with no response. I feel the friendship is over.

An I right to feel aggrieved, should I have been more tactful? Would the friendship have blown up over stuff like this anyway?

I worked with healthcare professionals that quit rather than be vaccinated. They went from being easygoing happy work colleagues to hate filled conspiracy theorists. Too painful to even have a passing conversation with, it really is like a religious cult.

Yep, it is mostly sore arm etc.

But since you clearly couldn't be arsed to read the text all the way down, the site also lists fatalities. Not many, and as I said on balance probably still worth having the jab, but each one a disaster for those families, especially the younger victims.

Also, whilst I'm busy proving to a stranger on the internet how wrong they are, you might find this site refutes your second point too:

www.bmj.com/content/377/bmj.o1565

Vaccine damage payments are a real thing.

Lastly, lest anyone think I am an anti-vaccer, I am not. But it is not scientific to stifle any and all fact based debate, it is just as ignorant as those you attack.

Both sides are like this tbh

how many times do I hear people say after they caught covid that, ‘I’m experiencing mild symptoms blah blah grateful for the vaccine for keeping me safe and healthy’ like some catechism.

Like, it’s ok to say it didn’t work as well as expected!

As someone with a PhD in a STEM area and who works in that area I have found that evidence comes a very distant second to emotion for most people. You can present all the data you want to a lot of people, but if it goes against their view they will either ignore it or just find another line of attack. It is a shame really as a lot of people have spent a lot of time trying to do outreach work and inform the public, but there is money to be made from misinformation so you can't really fight market force

And yet it was Public Health trying to mislead people on the origins of COViD-19 and tried to discredit the Great Barrington Declaration. Public Health does plenty to shame itself. They give space for these conspiracies to flourish

My sister in law is like your friend, full of conspiracy theories and very anti Vax. We tried steering away from the subject as we are both fully vaccinated and happy to be so. She has lost friends through her viewpoint though. And now she isn’t talking to us because of something different that she has taken offence at. Unfortunately she is a troubled person who seeks drama and enjoys arguing and maybe your friend is similar. In other words, it would be no great loss to lose her friendship.

Because all of the data points towards a very specific type of clot, which mine wasn't. And from only one of the vaccines which isn't the one I got. Like has been explained, you compare current rates to the rates normally expected and there just isn't a big spike.

But yes, a yellow card report was made, as any event within a couple of weeks of vaccine would be. But (peer reviewed) research on the back of yellow card reports doesn't show any increase in clots outside of what would be expected. Yellow card reports, by themselves with no research, aren't very useful generally. It's only once they've been investigated, by qualified researchers, that patterns can be found.

The risk of a clot from hormonal birth control is statistically massive - but there is no big outcry about that.

I love conspiracies simply because some of them are really out there. I read them and listen with an open mind because historically people have been made to feel batshit for revealing the truth. It’s an easy way to shut people down. Just because at the moment things seem a conspiracy doesn’t mean this will always remain so.

There are those that have also been proven true, including stuff about HIV.
MKUltra was denied for a long time (using lsd on the military)
Watergate was another one that started as a conspiracy.

Roswell was an interesting one. Yea something crashed and at the time it was denied. It was a silver object that at first US military denied. Later they revealed it was part of project Mogul. The aliens were first mentioned back in the 60’s roughly 20 years since the device crashed.

www.buzzworthy.com/15-conspiracies-that-turned-out-to-be-true/

history.howstuffworks.com/history-vs-myth/11-unbelievable-conspiracy-theories-that-were-actually-true.htm

www.britannica.com/event/Roswell-incident

Paedophile rings were denied for a long time that linked in the RF and other influential people, those people were called conspiracy theorist nutters. I remember hearing about them in the late 80’s and here we are now with everything that has been revealed to date.

If people had spoken out about Mother Teresa before the dark stuff was revealed again, they would have been called theorists. Although there are a few including involvement with the CIA.

I totally agree with you. I guess I just can’t take people of either side becoming aggressive when you don’t share their opinions.

Well, is it difference of opinion, or is it that she’s rude, hectoring, insensitive, narrow minded and thin skinned?
Had a row with a family member about the miscarriage stuff. A medical journal published some research that showed Covid vax did not increase the risk of miscarriage, and one of those internet doctors was quoting the article as if the rate of miscarriage = rate of stillbirth. Vile manipulative lies.

I know somebody who has fallen out with everybody she knows who had the Covid vaccine. She posted so much shit on social media during the pandemic that I called her out. So I was immediately blocked. She's always been a bit odd but otherwise a lovely person and I am sad the friendship has ended. Our boys were friends but are no longer. I make a point of speaking to her child and asking how he is because I refuse to stoop to that level. He has also become estranged from other friends because of his mother and she has lost a support network.

It's really sad but also impossible to reason with people on this path.

Did you read the bit about how yellow card reporting works? How it's voluntary? How anybody can report anything they think may be connected to the vaccine? Not proven, just think. Many of those reports will be purely coincidental. The same thing happened with the US reporting, people entered deaths of an individual due to vaccine, when actually they died in a car crash (they just happened to have their vaccine a few days before).

Those reports are not conclusive of any link, in any way shape or form. They are merely a data gathering exercise to help the scientists recognise any possible patterns that may point to a causal link.

Yes, that's kind of the point isn't it - we actually get to discuss these things without being shut down. You've got your theories - based on no medical papers or quoted sources I should add - and I listen to them and make a decision. Doesn't mean either of us don't get a say and going back to the point of the thread, doesn't mean friendships have to end.

I’ve always been pro vaccine until it personally cause me a lot of issues. Yes, there are some crazy theory's out there but honestly there are some small cases where it has adverse reactions and tbh some young people didn’t need it in my opinion.
I’m in one of the rare cases were the vaccine caused me to develop hypothyroidism. I have no history of it in my family but unfortunately a month after the vaccine I got the heaviest period I’d every had in my life so bad I bleed through all my jeans right down my legs to the ground, when I was out shopping (sorry to be graphic). Never in my life had I suffered a heavy period. I went to the doctor and was turned away and each month the same thing happened. I got another doctor and she did a full blood test. I had multiple blood tests over the years and none had shown any sign of an elevated TSH. But when I got this blood test it came back that my TSH was elevated and an my iron was severely low. During this time me and my husband we’re trying for a baby but 6months of nothing working I had some checks done. They said my ovarian reserve was low for age and this can sometimes be caused by thyroid problems. I went on thyroid meds and iron pills straight away. I was only 34 at the time so it seemed odd that this had happened to me as my mother and most women in my family have had babies in there mid to late thirties.
Ive now been through 3 rounds of ivf and had a miscarriage after one. My immune system seems to be overactive and I need to get tests as my natural killer cells may be killing and preventing pregnancy. I’m using the NHS for IVF and it’s never been so busy with women with fertility problems. My friend did per Covid and waited 3 months and I waited a year and half. I can never get booked in for treatments each moth I phone, as there is just too much of a demand. One of the NHS fertility nurses said she completely refused to get the vaccine, which I think is scary coming from a fertility nurse.
I honestly understand why some people don’t feel safe or trust the vaccine. There is just some cases like mines were I’ve been unlucky and developed an autoimmune disease because of it. I personally would never get it again. Everyone is entitled to that. There maybe some batshit crazy conspiracy theory’s out there… I honestly i think they just didn’t have time to test on enough people and the effects of menstruating women.

I wouldn’t fall out with someone because of there view on not wanting a vaccine but obviously if they are being aggressive or talking down to you then that’s no friend worth having.

I don't think anyone disputes that vaccine damage can happen. Anyone can have a bad reaction to a medicine. But that's not a reason for people to generally stop having them.

There is now a measles outbreak in the UK because of vaccine hesitancy.

Also, has it been confirmed that Covid vaccine was the reason for your infertility?

I know loads of people who had IVF babies before Covid even existed. To date I know 6 couples who have had successful IVF. This all predated 2020.

@Tambatamba Obviously didn’t read the original post properly. I’m not at vacs for anything required in childhood like measles.

As I said in my post Covid vaccine is right for older people and those with underlying health conditions like my 65 mum with asthma.

Doctors, nurses and specialists have confirmed the to my cause the vaccine has triggered a thyroid condition. It happens in rare cases and the risks should be explained. Yes, thyroid conditions increase the chances of miscarriage and fertility issues. My gynaecologist confirmed this after my pregnancy loss.

IVF is on the rise the fertility nurse at the hospital I attend for IVF confirmed this. I also knew many women pre Covid who did ivf, of course it existed before 🤣 More women are seeking fertility treatments now than ever.

IVF is on the rise the fertility nurse at the hospital I attend for IVF confirmed this. I also knew many women pre Covid who did ivf, of course it existed before 🤣 More women are seeking fertility treatments now than ever.

Evidence? You can't just cite stuff like this without any evidence. Even if infertility is on the rise, it could be for any reason and is not likely to be because of the Covid vaccine in any case.

As I said in my post Covid vaccine is right for older people and those with underlying health conditions like my 65 mum with asthma.

A child I know had asymptomatic Covid which led to long Covid, before the vaccine was available. She is now in a wheelchair most of the time. Her mum has become an advocate for long covid awareness.

Most people who have underlying health conditions don't know that they do. And most of us do, anyway.

SHe sounds batshit
I'd feel relieved rather than aggrieved to drop the "friendship"

Not sure whether I'd feel sad that an apparently sane, rational person had got drawn into such potty 'theories', or cross with myself at my initial misjudgement about her character.

When did I say it was the Covid vaccine is the fault for IVF being on the rise? Think you made that part up.

In my case is has caused a condition but that is my case not the entire population.

Nope, you've definitely insinuated that.

@Kitty12345678 this is an old thread from almost a year ago, no need to resurrect. Start a new one if you want to discuss the issues or people will waste time replying to a dead debate.