To feel aggrieved that I've lost a friendship over anti vax

[VisaGeezer]

I've recently had a fall out with a friend of about 11 years due to not agreeing with/challenging her anti vax opinions

We don't see each other often these days and I wasn't aware of these opinions before. They include;

Covid vaccine is killing young people, who are dropping dead at rates never seen before.

It's causing miscarriages.

It's causing lots of health problems.

Pziser lied and said it prevented transmission. (I checked this and they actually didn't).

The World Economic Forum (?) is taking over.

MMR vaccine causes Autism.

The Anish community doesn't take MMR vaccine and had no autism.

Various stuff about Trans issues (kids being transed) which actually agreed with.

Pharmaceutical companies are all evil and have political, economic etc agendas.

COVID was created in a lab, initially in the US, moved to China due to safety issues etc.

Any data released by anyone refuting the claims about COVID has been bought, is false etc

Doctors who said unvaccinated ppl were more likely to end up in ICU were bought/under the thumb and lying.

The Member of palace staff (subsequently "retired") who questioned the black lady during the event there about her origins and moved/touche her hair was - due to age etc - not being racist or offensive ..... I said grabbing and moving her hair combined with the questioning about her origin, nationality etc was extremely intrusive. She said it wasn't, grabbing someone's crotch would be extremely intrusive, I said that would be sexual assault, not "extremely intrusive".

During this conversation my frustration, exasperation and lack of agreement became more and more obvious ....she told me I needed to read about things, do my research before dismissing these things etc etc . It escalated to me walking off.

I have since apologised for walking off, with no response. I feel the friendship is over.

An I right to feel aggrieved, should I have been more tactful? Would the friendship have blown up over stuff like this anyway?

She's deranged. You are well rid.

@VisaGeezer thank you. I'm sorry you're going through it too. She was my bridesmaid as well and we agreed to disagree at the wedding but she couldn't let it go. On SM she 'likes' everyone else's posts but acts like I don't exist. Looking back she has used this bully boy approach before. It's been a very tough time but I've come through it and you will too

I haven't looked into it, but I thought it was thought to be another animal to human thing (using the technical word there), like sids to aids, from bushmeat markets (?)

Don't be daft. The VACCINE was "created", in a lab. The VIRUS itself emerged, but there are conspiracy myths claiming it, too, was created in a (Chinese, CIA, Martian?) lab and accidentally/for undisclosed nefarious purposes set free.

Both sides have valid points

Out of interest, what are her valid points in the list in the op (and the Dr. Fauci thing I had to add on in another post)?

I said yabu because at the end of the day your friend is entitled to their opinions. I personally don't agree with their opinions but I think it's unreasonable that neither of you could decide to say 'lets agree to disagree' and move the conversation on when it became circular.

God dammit, I read covid as vaccine. Sorry all.

I'm so sorry, that's horrible. How did others react to her toxic nonsense?

It's sad that families and friendships have broken down over this but you're not alone. there's an actual subreddit r/QAnonCasualties for people in your situation. I know that your friend hasn't mentioned QAnon specifically but there's a lot of overlap there.

I couldn't possibly address everything but as usual, it's extremes

some are opposed to gain of function research in principle

some think certain people delayed AIDS treatments

some think Covid treatments were ignored at the expense of prevention

how can anyone ever know the answers? That's why I dislike the "I'm right and cannot be questioned" folk. I often find they tell you off if you don't want to investigate more.

Maybe your friend will mellow out & lose her evangelical zeal in future, OP. I hope you get the friendship back.

My step-sis is suddenly posting lots of vegan memes. I will see her in person soon & wonder if she's at least tolerant in person. It's hard when people become obsessed zealots. I assume OP tried to change the topic, shrug, smile & talk about something else, etc. That friend kept going on even after OP said "I guess we'll have to agree to disagree." But if someone is obsessive about pushing a pet tedious topic no matter how hard you try to talk to them, it's exhausting.

I stayed at a AirBnB where the host kept bringing up weird ideas. I'd ask him questions about minor aspects because I'm mildly interested in how people make decisions. Mostly I tried to divert the convo without doing that obviously. He was very friendly with wine & we could find things to laugh about but... I wouldn't be keen to go back there!! Not that interested in being smothered with someone else's weird ideas I don't agree with.

As for the origin of Covid, I thought that nobody has proven where it came from. IIRC WHO have tried to investigate but not really come to a proper conclusion. There are theories like a lab leak and bats/wet markets but I have no opinion as I (obviously !) don't know.

Presumably when OP first knew this woman she was showing no signs of these batshit tendencies, or they wouldn't have become friends.

Tbh I always found her intense and "quirky" and .... Dunno how to explain it

I just thought a lot of it was her circumstances.

When I'm friends with people, I tend to focus on their good sides, perhaps at the expense of a realistic evaluation of their personality.

You are well shot of her. Absolute nutter.

I actually used to be totally pro-vaxx. I am still pro-vaxx but have some qualms about particular vaccines. This is both from personal experience with one vaccine which gave me horrible side-effects, and from reading medical journals and research about their efficacy.

I could be friends with an anti-vaxxer depending on where their views came from and whether we could just not discuss it. I have friends with different views on politics, religion etc after all.

@EmmaAgain22 I agree with you. I feel like both "sides" in what essentially became a culture war have a very unquestioning belief set and ignore any inconvenient questions. In reality, how can any of us know any of it for a fact? We're all just trusting what we've been told or read, and what we trust and believe will differ depending on who we are.

I assume OP tried to change the topic, shrug, smile & talk about something else, etc. That friend kept going on even after OP said "I guess we'll have to agree to disagree."

No, I have to admit I was, for various reasons, exasperated and skeptical and sometimes saying what issues I had with her claims from the start.

An example; according to her the Amish community does not take the mmr vaccine and have no autism. This proves it causes Autism. I responded that the Amish community did not strike me as a community that would be open to autism diagnoses or transparent in the info they share with the wider world.

I suppose I was shocked/caught on the back foot by the claims/theories she was saying, one after another, (I had no idea she believed them, they didn't come up in conversation before) and I just reacted without thinking. It just escalated.

And when it finally settled down, which is when I was agreeing with her about transing children..... It started up again when she raised the member of staff at Buckingham palace being let go and how it wasn't really her fault and it was OTT.

She also mentioned some BLM organiser being a fraudster. I know nothing about it.

I have a friend who has gone like this, although no so bad, since covid. Hardly goes out, spends most of her time looking up pointless things. Has plenty of time as retired, she has a lodger who shops for her.

sad really to waste your life away on this stuff

I am not a scientist or a health care professional. My science education stopped at school once I had my grade B O level passes in Maths and Biology, a very long time ago. I am not equipped to evaluate scientific research. However, people who do have the training, knowledge and experience which I lack have advised the government that COVID vaccines are safe and a good use of taxpayers' money to get the pandemic under some measure of control. They also advised every government in the world that there was a pandemic. Why would they all lie? What's in it for them? How would almost every scientist and HCP in the world be persuaded to lie to us about this stuff?

Set that against the unsubstantiated ravings from random people with form for believing six impossible things before breakfast and, in most cases, no relevant training, knowledge and experience.

Why would any intelligent, sensible person choose to believe the second group instead of the first?

Apologies for spelling Pfizer wrong numerous times.

Why would they all lie? What's in it for them? How would almost every scientist and HCP in the world be persuaded to lie to us about this stuff?

According to my no longer friend, they've been bought or are scared to lose their jobs.

(Never heard of whistle blowers apparently).

Also probably scared of being killed off, actually, now I think about the stuff that was being implied.

Someone's death was referred to as sudden, inexplicable and just as they were about to expose these people.

It's like people say that X cures cancer and doctors just hide it from us because they don't want us to know

But doctors get cancer too, and their families get cancer, and some doctors who go into oncology or cancer research do so because they have lost loved ones to cancer

But sure they are all hiding the truth that lentil oils cure cancer

My SIL's husband believes that Earth is flat. She's really embarrassed for him. She could easily get a t-shirt "I'm with stupid". This sort of stuff really affects marriage.

Other friends tried to reason with her and she blocked them too. She has online friends know who are better apparently 🙄