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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel aggrieved that I've lost a friendship over anti vax

223 replies

VisaGeezer · 22/12/2022 14:27

I've recently had a fall out with a friend of about 11 years due to not agreeing with/challenging her anti vax opinions

We don't see each other often these days and I wasn't aware of these opinions before. They include;

Covid vaccine is killing young people, who are dropping dead at rates never seen before.

It's causing miscarriages.

It's causing lots of health problems.

Pziser lied and said it prevented transmission. (I checked this and they actually didn't).

The World Economic Forum (?) is taking over.

MMR vaccine causes Autism.

The Anish community doesn't take MMR vaccine and had no autism.

Various stuff about Trans issues (kids being transed) which actually agreed with.

Pharmaceutical companies are all evil and have political, economic etc agendas.

COVID was created in a lab, initially in the US, moved to China due to safety issues etc.

Any data released by anyone refuting the claims about COVID has been bought, is false etc

Doctors who said unvaccinated ppl were more likely to end up in ICU were bought/under the thumb and lying.

The Member of palace staff (subsequently "retired") who questioned the black lady during the event there about her origins and moved/touche her hair was - due to age etc - not being racist or offensive ..... I said grabbing and moving her hair combined with the questioning about her origin, nationality etc was extremely intrusive. She said it wasn't, grabbing someone's crotch would be extremely intrusive, I said that would be sexual assault, not "extremely intrusive".

During this conversation my frustration, exasperation and lack of agreement became more and more obvious ....she told me I needed to read about things, do my research before dismissing these things etc etc . It escalated to me walking off.

I have since apologised for walking off, with no response. I feel the friendship is over.

An I right to feel aggrieved, should I have been more tactful? Would the friendship have blown up over stuff like this anyway?

OP posts:
Wombatbum · 22/12/2022 20:57

I’d not be able to be friends with someone like that. It’s scary how many of them there are though since Covid 😳

Original poster
VisaGeezer · 22/12/2022 21:02

CoopsMalloops · 22/12/2022 20:42

You’ve got your answers op, majority of us agree with you so why do you need to keep proving to us how bat shit your friend is by regurgitating the stuff she’s said?

Not sure where you're referring to.

You can read elsewhere if you feel I'm repetitive. There are many other threads.

OP posts:
Original poster
VisaGeezer · 22/12/2022 21:03

The pandemic highlighted the lack of scientific background and critical thinking skills in the population. Some people feel they have a right to an opinion on this but In many areas of life we don’t have enough specialist knowledge to have a valid opinion.

I think you're right.

OP posts:
Original poster
VisaGeezer · 22/12/2022 21:09

Maybe your friend will pop out the other side of the rabbit hole and realise she’s been taken in but don’t hold your breath.

I have a feeling she won't.

She had some beliefs/inclinations I found a bit whacky before; that feather thing (if you what I'm referring to, feathers being signs etc.), Religious retreats, she appears quite into mysticism (if that's the right word). I perhaps shouldn't have been as surprised she'd become a conspiracy theorist.

I feel the friendship is irreparably damaged by the incident, it's sad. I think she's a good person in so many ways.

OP posts:
Original poster
VisaGeezer · 22/12/2022 21:21

PeekAtYou · 22/12/2022 15:24

It's sad that families and friendships have broken down over this but you're not alone. there's an actual subreddit r/QAnonCasualties for people in your situation. I know that your friend hasn't mentioned QAnon specifically but there's a lot of overlap there.

Thank you. I'll have a look on there.

OP posts:
FloydPepper · 22/12/2022 21:36

Lesserspottedmama · 22/12/2022 20:38

To be fair I think a couple of those beliefs have more than a grain of truth to them.

Which ones ? And what truth?

FloydPepper · 22/12/2022 21:39

Ladysodor · 22/12/2022 16:39

She’s right on a lot of points. I’ve had two jabs (which I regret) and I have no intention of having a third. I am also in disagreement with some friends but we haven’t allowed it to come between us.
There is currently an unusually high death rate in young people. The stats are easy to access.

Can you share some of those stats please?

whats that? Do my own research? You’re not finding them for me? What a surprise

CoopsMalloops · 22/12/2022 21:41

VisaGeezer · 22/12/2022 21:02

Not sure where you're referring to.

You can read elsewhere if you feel I'm repetitive. There are many other threads.

Show quote history

The whole thread where you detail in most posts the things she believes to be true and that you don’t.

Thank you for the invitation to read elsewhere, you really put me in my place.

Original poster
VisaGeezer · 22/12/2022 21:44

CoopsMalloops · 22/12/2022 21:41

The whole thread where you detail in most posts the things she believes to be true and that you don’t.

Thank you for the invitation to read elsewhere, you really put me in my place.

Show quote history

You're very welcome.

OP posts:
Original poster
VisaGeezer · 22/12/2022 21:46

Apart from the usual 5-10% of goady, knarky c u next Tuesdays ..... Thank you so much to everyone who's posted.

Lots of useful, interesting opinions and information on this (and some related subjects). I really appreciate you taking your time to post.

OP posts:
ILoveeCakes · 22/12/2022 21:51

You do you and let them to them.

Keep taking jab after jab after jab and see how that works out for you. If the BBC and NHS says to keep getting them and to stick them in your baby, then I'm sure that's correct. Why would they lie? They want the best for you, right?

Hawkins001 · 22/12/2022 21:54

VisaGeezer · 22/12/2022 14:27

I've recently had a fall out with a friend of about 11 years due to not agreeing with/challenging her anti vax opinions

We don't see each other often these days and I wasn't aware of these opinions before. They include;

Covid vaccine is killing young people, who are dropping dead at rates never seen before.

It's causing miscarriages.

It's causing lots of health problems.

Pziser lied and said it prevented transmission. (I checked this and they actually didn't).

The World Economic Forum (?) is taking over.

MMR vaccine causes Autism.

The Anish community doesn't take MMR vaccine and had no autism.

Various stuff about Trans issues (kids being transed) which actually agreed with.

Pharmaceutical companies are all evil and have political, economic etc agendas.

COVID was created in a lab, initially in the US, moved to China due to safety issues etc.

Any data released by anyone refuting the claims about COVID has been bought, is false etc

Doctors who said unvaccinated ppl were more likely to end up in ICU were bought/under the thumb and lying.

The Member of palace staff (subsequently "retired") who questioned the black lady during the event there about her origins and moved/touche her hair was - due to age etc - not being racist or offensive ..... I said grabbing and moving her hair combined with the questioning about her origin, nationality etc was extremely intrusive. She said it wasn't, grabbing someone's crotch would be extremely intrusive, I said that would be sexual assault, not "extremely intrusive".

During this conversation my frustration, exasperation and lack of agreement became more and more obvious ....she told me I needed to read about things, do my research before dismissing these things etc etc . It escalated to me walking off.

I have since apologised for walking off, with no response. I feel the friendship is over.

An I right to feel aggrieved, should I have been more tactful? Would the friendship have blown up over stuff like this anyway?

Have you researched any of the topics ?

Getoff · 22/12/2022 22:02

According to the wikipedia page on the lab leak theory, one out of eight US intelligence agencies does think the most likely origin of COVID-19 was a lab leak. The one that did think so was the FBI. I think four of the others said it came from animals, and three had no opinion. (Hopefully I've remembered that correctly, I looked it up earlier today, but Mumsnet crashed when I tried to post.)

Hawkins001 · 22/12/2022 22:04

Getoff · 22/12/2022 22:02

According to the wikipedia page on the lab leak theory, one out of eight US intelligence agencies does think the most likely origin of COVID-19 was a lab leak. The one that did think so was the FBI. I think four of the others said it came from animals, and three had no opinion. (Hopefully I've remembered that correctly, I looked it up earlier today, but Mumsnet crashed when I tried to post.)

I'd love a time machine, head e.g. 50 year's into the future and see what truly happened with different events

Hawkins001 · 22/12/2022 22:04

@VisaGeezer
As some conspiracy theories have been proven in the past as being correct, what about the whole agree to disagree ?

dizzydizzydizzy · 22/12/2022 22:05

YANBU.

A very old friend unfriended my on Facebook due to the fact I did not agree with her anti vax views. She has 2 good degrees from good unis in unrelated subjects. She is one of the brightest people I know. However, she hooked up with a far-right partner who has radicalized her.

I really found it deeply annoying (especially as I am autistic) that she was positing on social media about the MMR causing autism. The research that 'proved' this was found to be fraudulent many years ago . It was well publicized. The doctor who did the research was struck off. But for some reason my friend thought that she was right and it was appropriate to post all this misinformation on social media.

She also posted all sorts of other nonsense about the covid vaccine, when it pointed out that she was going against what all the world's top scientists and doctors were saying, she said she had done her research and was convinced they were trying to trick us.

TarasHarp55 · 22/12/2022 22:18

I have a sister with views quite similar. Not all the ones you mentioned but a few. I certainly won't fall out with her. We don't all think the same, so I just let her ramble on and smile and nod. As long as she doesn't harm or upset anyone I don't really care.

teaandtoastwithmarmite · 22/12/2022 22:37

As previously said you can't agree to disagree with some people. My friend started with me saying if you just watch this one video I'll never mention it again then accused me of not watching it then was quizzing me on it. I asked if we could talk about something else and she stonewalled me.

GG1986 · 22/12/2022 23:12

I have a friend like this who is extremely opinionated and believes she is always right. She did a covid vaccine trial without any hesitation, I had one vaccine and had a long term reaction to it and decided not to have anymore, every time we met up our chats revolved around covid and the vaccines and how stupid she thought people were for not taking them etc, in the end I text her before our next meet up and said I didn't want to discuss anything covid related at our lunch, luckily she listened and it's been fine ever since. Only you know how much of a close friend she is and if you would allow this to break your friendship up x

Bepis · 23/12/2022 01:18

Lesserspottedmama · 22/12/2022 20:38

To be fair I think a couple of those beliefs have more than a grain of truth to them.

The Covid vaccine one does - it has permanently affected my health. Wish I had never had them. But...other people have been fine 🤷🏻‍♀️

Aussiegirl123456 · 23/12/2022 01:34

Badbadbunny · 22/12/2022 14:35

That's not possible with people with very polarised opinions/beliefs. It can work if you both agree not to even discuss it and are mature enough to avoid the conversation, but in reality, that hardly ever happens. It's the same with any extreme view points whether it's covid, or religion, or similar. The most extreme people simply don't have it in them to keep quiet and just have to impose their views on you.

Show quote history

It is possible.

I had the vaccine and believed in it. My friend lost her sister and her mother within days of them getting the vaccine, her brother has been left with adverse effects from the vaccine (they (Pfizer) accepted liability and have paid compensation and his health related costs at the beginning of this month).

Therefore, she’s very anti vax. I respect her viewpoints and she respects mine. We meet regularly, and if either of us has something to say, the other listens respectfully and vice versa before we move on and continue our friendship. We don’t avoid the topic, such as I ask how her brother is going and how her dad is managing. Not once has she tried to push her agenda on me, nor me her. It can happen.

Blueflag22 · 23/12/2022 06:41

I don't think your friend should push her views on you but this vaccine is like no either, it's terrible actually and only on mumsnet are people who don't wish to inject the Mrna jab in thir body called anti vax?!
There are cardiologists well know ones ones Dr aseem maltouri and others . If you want to take 100 boosters then that us up to.you but you hano right to keep telling people that they are anti vax for nor wanting to take it anymore or even deciding not to have this vax. Your business. Mumsnet is the only place that people are still in denial or don't like to admit it wasn't that they thought it would would do and some people, many have become sick from it and even died. You can't deny it and and people anti vax for making a delicious on their body, it won't effect you. This is 2022 alot has come out.

whateveryouwantmetosay · 23/12/2022 06:50

I've lost my cousin due to similar "debates" (incl the earth is flat). I've stopped trying to reason with him (after the earth is flat debate) and now we just don't speak. Sad as it is, I just cannot surround myself with people like him.

CrunchyCarrot · 23/12/2022 08:03

only on mumsnet are people who don't wish to inject the Mrna jab in thir body called anti vax?!

Mumsnet is the only place that people are still in denial or don't like to admit it wasn't that they thought it would would do

Mumsnet really isn't the 'only place'. These discussions, debates and arguments are going on all over social media and various forums. It's actually very difficult to avoid them. I find it mentally exhausting and have to a large extent given up on trying to point out rational, scientific evidence to people. It's clear some people just don't want to listen, they want to believe the conspiracy theories. If misinformation is a virus itself, it's a very dangerous one.

maddy68 · 23/12/2022 08:47

There are risks with EVERYTHING. You are being silly to be so dramatic over this.

Paracetamol is a really dangerous drug in some instances.

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