Another dog kills. When is something going to be done?

[ofwarren]

AIBU to think that there needs to be a dog licence or at least SOMETHING put in place to try and prevent deaths by these dogs?
I was not at all surprised to read the breed..
"The dog, a large black XL bully cross cane corso breed, was seized by officers and has been destroyed."

metro.co.uk/2022/12/20/woman-dies-after-being-mauled-in-dog-attack-in-her-own-home-17970433/?ito=socialmetrouktwitter

One advantage of dog licences might be if the funds they raised were used to pay for dog wardens. My council and another local council have got rid of theirs, they need to bring them back but no doubt will say there's no money. So introduce dog licences and there will be money. It could be done retrospectively by charging people for the licence when owners next take their dogs to the vets.

he uses leash jerks, they are unpleasant for the dog

I have a neighbour who does this. I am not a dog fan but I think it's cruel.

Pet ownership is exploitation. The so-called animal lovers don't really love them at all, they just want something to play with and keep on their own terms.

The serious accidents don't usually happen in public places, but the more minor ones do. I wonder how much NHS time is used up dealing with dog bites and other indirect dog incidents (eg kids falling off their bikes because a dog has suddenly run at them). My DH was telling me this morning about a guy who died of sepsis because of a nip by his pet dog.

These people don't train their dogs.

They buy him or are gifted them on a whim. They put a collar on them and keep them either in a small kennel or let out the back garden to relieve themselves.
The attempts to walk them are like described above. Dog pulling at the lead all over the place. The novelty wears off and they are basically fed and that's about it. A friend lives in a trailer park and they're all over the place. I can't imagine keeping huge dogs in a trailer. They'd stake them out on a chain outside the trailer.

They don't spay or neuter them either.

I keep trying to set my dog free in the park every day, and yet every day he follows me home.

Currently he's being exploited by napping under my duvet, when he bothers to get up I'll exploit him by serving breakfast to him, before he chooses whether to suffer his way through a nap on the sofa or his own bed. This afternoon I'll give him his 1500th opportunity to choose if he prefers life living on his own wits or a life of exploitation with me. Assuming he makes the same decision as on the last 1499 times it's back to his prison with dinner, a game of fetch and naps on the sofa with his captors.

But perhaps you'll tell me the dog has Stockholm Syndrome.

We have dog licences in Northern Ireland still, its all online now and we no longer get tags. I don't see what difference it makes, I'm sure there's still thousands ofpeople who don't have one. They will only be found out if the poilice or dog warden is called out for any reason.

As others have mentioned the biggest problems are bad breeders who breed dogs purely for money and poor traits are fed back into the gene pool.

People often moan about how difficult it is to get a dog from a rescue and rightly so but our society of instant gratification means people want everything right now so will buy from wherever is easiest. A good breeder would make it just as difficult to buy one of their pups in order to make sure it goes to the best possible home.

Too many people often get breeds completely unsuitable to their lifestyle and end up with inevitable problems. The decent owners will seek help but from who? I’ve done a 3 day dog trainer course and could probably now offer my services! My dog Walker calls herself a trainer and offers behaviour advice as she’s been around dogs all her life - both of us even with the best intentions would probably do more harm than good.
The rest at best watch a couple of TikTok videos from some dubiously qualified ‘trainers’ peddling some archaic training.

Get a grip of breeders and those who can genuinely call themselves trainers and behaviourist and we might go some way to reducing the problem.

Banning a couple more breeds won’t see long term change.

Assuming it’s the same as what we used to have, it’s basically a tax on owning dogs not anything useful though.

I assume people mean useful licensing when they say they think we should have dog licences - that’s what I mean when I say it.

I think it should be along similar lines as driving licences tbh.

@ElephantInTheKitchen I think we own the same dog. She is currently farting away next to me and debating exploiting the sausages I have cooked her... after a long exploitive walk at the beach.

On a less cheery note I have just moved (thankfully) and the idiot next door had a huge xl bully. Never once walked. Killed next doors rabbits until they heightened the fences.
RSPCA not bothered. We had very small gardens and they said as long as it had water and shelter it was fine.
Never seen a vet.
The only time anyone showed any interest was the brief period it kept escaping out the back gate and the dog warden returned it. It was taking itself to the park :( eventually they told them they would fine them if they did it again.
There are eight children in that house. Including two new horns (mum and teenage daughter pregnant) and the dog is a time bomb. I Don't know why our standards are so low before we do anything.... same for social services but that's another story.
The only animals happy and thriving in their were the bed bugs!

An acquaintance of a friend of mine has just re homed one of these. Dog has been locked away for most of its life, only let out in the garden, and kept in an area no bigger than a downstairs cupboard.

The person who bought it has limited experience with dogs and has children. It's a tragedy waiting to happen.

So many people get dogs knowing fuck all about them. They buy into the whole mans best friend shit and never imagine it would happen to them.

People with that level of ignorance and stupidity cannot be helped. It's just a shame that it's usually innocent victims paying the price for thier bad decisions.

The licence fee should cover all costs involved ply more.

What will having a license actually do though? These dogs won't know they're licensed and so it won't make any difference to their behaviour.

@Dotjones well thats just stupid as same could be said about humans in general

@ThisGirlNever lots of humans have attacked others but we don't all go around having to wear muzzles etc
People also need to teach children not to approach or tease dogs etc, a boy ran up to mine and went to whack him with a stick whilst his parent said oh hes playing
If my dog had bit , he would of been in trouble but the 8 ish year old kid no repercussions.
I agree more parks with fenced off for off lead running and more wardens to check owners are responsible etc
But an all out muzzle for all dogs etc , no
I

There are two types of licence

1. One where it's basically just a tax, like the TV licence, which would achieve nothing
2. One where you have to put some effort into getting it and can lose it if you screw up, like a driving licence.

If it was the latter, and it included some compulsory education (theory lessons before you get the dog, a theory test, and some practical training sessions once you've got the dog) then it might have some impact.

Theory could cover things like positive reinforcement training, socialisation (a much misunderstood term), canine body language, etiquette, choosing the right dog breed for your family, how and when to seek a behaviourists support, nutrition and so on.

The practical sessions would be a typical puppy training class (with a different version for adult rescue dogs, and a one-to-one option for adults that don't cope in a group setting) to put some groundwork in place.

The implementation would be the tricky bit - I'm not sure there are enough properly qualified dog trainers out there to run such a scheme to an acceptable standard, and many of the existing ones might not want to become a government employee, preferring self employment.

@Insertusernamehere123 this is the thing.
People buy into the lie of breed not deed. They truly believe that love and cuddles can fix all behavioural issues. That all dogs need is a chance and they can change, even ones with previous aggressive history.
That if they let the dogs run riot with others they will eventually learn to socialise with anything despite genetics, personality, previous learning, temperament.

Most are not educated enough to look at the science based evidence, sadly and so people and other animals are continuously killed by these type of dogs. People have over inflated egos and believe the shit spread all over the internet about dogs, maybe if they had more realistic ideas about their own capabilities then it wouldn’t happen! The majority of people do not need a dog bred to kill anything nor are they experienced enough to train it!

I also think that some owners of these bully breeds don't actually want their dogs to be socialised or trained to be well behaved anyway.

@ElephantInTheKitchen @Stomacharmeleon my point is that people keep dogs for their own benefit, not the dogs' benefit. As you knew full well.

And dogs don't know any different. That doesn't make it right to keep one for your own purposes. Just as having children isn't for the good of society, it's because people want to. But if you do that, you make sure as far as you can that your pets and kids don't adversely affect others.

'I am not a dog expert, Cesar Milan doesn't scare dogs'...

That, right there, is a huge part of the problem. People don't understand what they are seeing when it comes to dog behaviour, or awful training methods.

Cesar relies very heavily on using intimidating, confrontational body language, and outright bullying, to force dogs to submit to him.

What you see on tv is the edited footage after several HOURS of working with the dog and Cesar specifically, works with dogs without the owner present for a few hours. They use a stooge dog to wind up the clients dog, and his magical 'tsst' and back-kick with his heel thing... I can reveal that the 'magic' here is several hours of pairing both of those with a harsh jerk of a prong, or super fine 'cheesewire' slip lead up at the most sensitive part of the neck, or a shock collar, until the 'tssst' or the heel kick results in an extreme response from the dog.

This is to ensure it looks like magic on tv and that the dog is absolutely raving with frustration and fear, to get the footage they want of Cesar 'calming' the beast.

But, to know that, you need to have a good education in canine body language, in how they learn, in what the various methods will do and why, and a good number of contacts within the TV production industry, to understand how this works, get first hand accounts of what goes on. (My description of what goes on above is from first hand accounts and behind the scenes video, its not opinion it is fact.)

When you address behaviour like pulling on the lead, lunging at people, growling at people.. by suppressing behaviour by pairing the action with an aversive like a prong correction or a shock or a yank on a slip lead or a kick or yell or whatever... The chances are, the dog pairs this with what they were focused on at the time.

Not on their actual behaviour.

So now they actually feel worse about being near the trigger, but they don't dare express that feeling so the chances are, the owner will now take them near children, believing their dog 'cured'...

And theres where we get these 'he bit out of the blue' and 'he bit without warning' and 'he just turned...' and 'it was totally unprovoked'... cases from.

Spot on.

For some people, a dog that requires physical strength to be held back, who they have to yell at and drag away, who is lunging and raving at people... is a massive ego boost in many ways.

Some of these people themselves feel really vulnerable, hence their choice of dog, and their appreciation of a dogs behaviour that keeps people away from them, and are just unaware of the issues. I have had a few cases like this and taught them to give the dog a hand cue to bark furiously, whilst on a loose lead. Because the behaviour is on cue, for treats, its totally safe, but still makes people keep their distance!.

Some of them just don't give a fuck, are too thick to realise that the person the dog ends up hurting or killing is not likely to be a 'bad guy', but instead themselves, their loved ones, or innocent parties.

Your dog isn't a person. The rest of society haven't signed up to the inherent danger that your dog poses.

Kids shouldn't tease dogs, but your dog couldn't bite a provocative child if it were muzzled. It is ultimately your job to ensure your dog never bites anybody, no matter what the circumstances.

That is why your dog should be muzzled.

@ThisGirlNever society does not expect all dogs to be muzzles though just you

@ThisGirlNever dogs need to be able to play and exercise too , they do have rights as well and a dog that is trained and doesn't bite etc will want to okay with a ball and sticks
My dog doesn't bite , he didn't bite said child either as a responsible owner I stepped in and averted any situation.
The issue isn't all dogs its some owners

@lieselotte if the 'exploitation' of dog ownership is that high up your list of concerns, I do hope you're a vegan...

I did once have a lodger whose girlfriend refused to visit as keeping pets was, to her mind, a form of slavery and she couldn't bear to be around enslaved DDog. This particular DDog was accidentally acquired from a friend who couldn't keep him and no one else wanted him. He wasn't created for my benefit, though I like to think our ongoing life together is of mutual benefit, rather like all friendships.

@WiddlinDiddlin excellent post re Cesar Millan