Another dog kills. When is something going to be done?

[ofwarren]

AIBU to think that there needs to be a dog licence or at least SOMETHING put in place to try and prevent deaths by these dogs?
I was not at all surprised to read the breed..
"The dog, a large black XL bully cross cane corso breed, was seized by officers and has been destroyed."

metro.co.uk/2022/12/20/woman-dies-after-being-mauled-in-dog-attack-in-her-own-home-17970433/?ito=socialmetrouktwitter

Something should be done, but it won't. There are far too many dogs, far too many stupid and irresponsible owners, and few places to go without the manky things running about slobbering and jumping on people at best, attacking people at worst. There should be some regulations and hurdles to owning animals which are let loose in public areas and can kill, but it will never happen.

It's always this breed at the moment isn't it? They should be banned and destroyed, no one needs a dog like this.

The theory of pack leadership has been thoroughly debunked, including by the man who did the original research (Mech). It was based on some very flawed research looking at capitve wolves in an unnatural grouping (unrelated adults not a family, which created conflict... like a dysfunctional house share), then applied to a totally different species (dogs) and their interspecies interactions with a third unrelated species (humans). Pack leadership theory proponents will have you thinking the dog wants to sleep on the sofa because it wants to outrank the humans... back in the real world they actually want to be up there because it's more comfortable than the floor.

I'll agree with you that these dogs are unsuitable for the novice, and that they need a lot of physical and mental exercise which they often don't get enough of. Mine is a much smaller working breed and if he's underexercised he starts to go stir crazy and make a complete nuisance of himself, including being more prone to snapping - basically he just ends up on a shorter fuse. I can absolutely see the same happening with some of these dogs.

Agree with this - far too many dogs now since lockdown. I went out for a walk to my local shops the other day and I passed 2 separate owners who had reactive, temperamental dogs that were growling and snarling at other dogs and the owners having to hold them tightly to stop them attacking. These weren’t even aggressive breeds of dogs but clearly the problem is the owners and I see it far too often.

The theory of pack leadership has been thoroughly debunked, including by the man who did the original research (Mech). It was based on some very flawed research looking at capitve wolves in an unnatural grouping (unrelated adults not a family, which created conflict... like a dysfunctional house share), then applied to a totally different species (dogs) and their interspecies interactions with a third unrelated species (humans). Pack leadership theory proponents will have you thinking the dog wants to sleep on the sofa because it wants to outrank the humans... back in the real world they actually want to be up there because it's more comfortable than the floor.

Absolutely right.

Plus, of course, dogs are not wolves. They may share ancestry but there are numerous differences in social behaviour between the two animals that means you cannot view wolf behaviour as being entirely replicated in a domestic dog.

I have no idea what the answer is, but this is why I get so annoyed with the amount of people who walk their dogs off leads. I know most breeds are much lower risk than the bull breeds but, to me, any animal is a risk for small children especially and should be on leads unless in private land with warnings that dogs are off lead

I fully agree!

I'd hazard a guess that the people who are attracted to owning a XL bully x cane corso are not the kind of people that invest a lot of time, money and energy in training their dogs... That combined with a genetic predisposition towards guarding and protecting is a pretty dangerous combo.

Please don't assume that the person who is holding the lead is the one responsible for the behaviour problems.

There are lots of ways a dog can become reactive without it being that person's fault

• in some cases they have a bad experience as a youngster and develop a lifelong fear (e.g. being attacked by abother dog), which leads them to bark to keep the scary things away.
• sometimes there's crap breeding - for example breeding a couple of nervous dogs together. In utero experiences (e.g. a stressed mum) and the experiences during the first 8 weeks of life with a breeder are also really important.
• sometimes people do everything right and just get a dog that's not quite wired right. I'm sure we can all think of a family with good parents, entirely normal siblings and then one sibling who has major mental health issues for no obvious reason.
• some people have rescue dogs that came with issues pre-installed

In many cases the person holding the lead is trying to do all they can to help the dog and its issues.

I definitely judge crap training methods - anyone yanking a lead, bleating "no" at their dog, prong collars, choke chains, shock collars and so on, but having rescued a dog with behaviour issues I do try and give the benefit of the doubt over dogs with behaviour issues.

I live in XL Bully ghetto heaven. There's tons of them. Usually owned by young men who take them out and join up with other young men friends who also have them. So you'll see a group of 7 or so young men with around 2 or 3 XL Bully's between them just hanging out or 'training' them in the kids playground during the evening, or the local green in the park.

They tie things to the trees to train their bite. You'll see those useless community police wardens or whatever just walk past them without saying a thing.

And frankly too many dogs owners in general seem to think they own the public parks and will have their dogs off-lead running full tilt across the grass when young children are on it walking and playing. I've had to grab my toddler niece and put her on my shoulders and change direction for fear that someone's staffy will confuse her for something threatening. She'd have no chance. So often I see an owner who can't call their dog back. Why is it off the lead, if it doesn't listen to you??

I'd like to see mandatory dog licences with special certification for owning stronger more 'dangerous' breeds. Also a banning of ownership of some breeds if you have young children.

Another death! I remember the thread with petition not so long ago.

The problem is the culture of male inadequacy that sees these dogs as their dicks on a string to parade in public.

I haven't got any solutions, either.

XL Bully x Cane Corso.

That’s one hell of a strong dog, add that to epigenetic factors and you have a recipe for disaster, as we see reported over and over. The owners will never learn because the thrill of owning these dogs comes from their aggression, the fear they instil in others and the (misplaced) idea that the ‘hard men’ owners are mastering these untameable beasts for their own ends. Of course the truth is usually that these dogs have no training at all, not even basic puppy manners.

Sadly it’s not possible to legislate against people being stupid and incapable of looking after a houseplant yet alone an animal that has the ability to kill and maim.

And that’s fair enough but what’s the answer then? Is it fair to take them out in public when theyre that reactive and aggressive? why should other people have to tolerate that? I certainly don’t feel safe or trust dogs that behave like that.

They don’t particularly tbh, fatal attacks tend to be extended family members ie not particularly familiar to the dog, visitors or dogs that have only been owned for a short period of time.

There have been studies and the three highest correlations for fatal attacks were - the dog had been abused/neglected at some point, the “owner” wasn’t present (I’m putting inverted commas because there have been a few where the legal owner was present but they’d only owned the dog for a week or 2) and bring unneutered. The breed was way down the list, because it rises in some breeds as they get more popular and decreases in others and you get the odd outlier like babies killed by small dogs.

Ban pitbulls, Staffies, XL Bullies and any dogs closely related to or resembling them as a minimum.

Dogs shouldn't be allowed in public, owners should only be able to exercise them on their own private property. If the dog needs to be transferred from one property to another it could be secured in a car or van for the journey.

There'd be exceptions obviously for things like police dogs and possibly guide dogs, but zero tolerance for dogs kept as pets.

I'd like to see dog laws to be somewhere between knife laws and gun laws. Like a knife, a dog should only be allowed in a public place where there is a legitimate reason to be in possession of one. Just as "feeling safer" is not a legal defence for carrying a knife, "taking it for a walk" shouldn't be a legal defence for having a dog in a public place.

The comparison to gun laws comes in with the idea that, like when someone wants to own a gun, first they should have to undergo tests to ensure that they are a suitable person to own a dog and that they have the facilities to ensure it is kept safely on private property away from the public.

Problem is, the people who own these 'status' type dogs are highly unlikely to comply with any law and the breeding and ownership of these dogs would be pushed even further underground...

<snort>

Today’s prize for most ridiculous post goes to you ⭐️

Men kill more people than dogs every year. Do you have a wildly unrealistic and reactionary solution for that, too

You may only own a man or a dog if you have sufficient space to exercise them at home :D

Most of these attacks occur in the owners home , so how will this help?

I'm not saying a lot of these owners aren't clueless idiots. However, I believe that most of these breeds are predisposed to this type of behaviour. It's instinct to them.

And people complain about how difficult it is to get a dog from a rescue centre.
It's a pity that anyone wanting to get a dog from anywhere doesnt have to be thoroughly vetted first.

I refuse to take my children to the local park (I travel to a different one, where children out number dogs). The local park has more organised activity days for dogs than families.

There are too many dogs off leads. My toddler ran up to a dog and I chased my son, the owner started shouting at my child. She said you shouldn't run up to dogs (fair point but....)I said your dog isn't on the lead you have no right to shout at my child. My child doesn't require a lead. Your dog does.

It's put me off. Another dog ran up to my child (was on a lead thank god) and growled and barked and it was only time I've ever visibly shook. Owner said chill out she loves kids. The growling was awful, I thought, you what? Loves kids?

I love dogs but you never know.

And people complain about how difficult it is to get a dog from a rescue centre.
It's a pity that anyone wanting to get a dog from anywhere doesnt have to be thoroughly vetted first.

I think this is the main problem.
I think dog breeding and selling needs to be much more strictly controlled and monitored. Not every Tom, Dick and Harry should be able to sell dogs, but unfortunately at the moment that’s the case. They don’t care who they sell to. Idiots who buy bully breeds are able to do so because of irresponsible breeders and sellers. Unsafe but also often the breeding animals and puppies don’t come from homes where they are treated well. You should have a licence to sell dogs. You should need to comply with proper checks and inspections to make sure you are breeding and selling responsibly. And if three years down the line the dog you sold kills someone I think it’s fair that you should be investigated - it could be that all is above board, but if it turns out you can’t prove that you made a sensible assessment of the owner then you should be prosecuted. I think that is something that can be reasonably monitored, whereas licenses for dog owners is much more tricky to police.