My entitled dd 18

[Confusedby1]

My DD is 18 and so entitled its insane. Finished 6th form. Got a job and quit within 2 months. It was only temp anyway. However she's now refusing to work. She's on the spectrum so we choose what battles to have as it's never worth thr fallout. However things hit boiling point this weekend. She sleeps until 7pm and get up when we go to bed to play on the PC and the noise levels are insane. Meaning the rest of us get ZERO sleep or survive on 2 to 4 hrs. She's defensive and won't just speak to us. It turns into a argument over how we are the worst people on the world. She cooks at all hours and leaves everything on the counter... it is really taking its toll on me. Anyway as I said. The shit hit the fan on Sunday and we gave her the ultimatum of getting a job or look.tp live elsewhere... nows She's gone to stay with a friend and their family. Saying god knows what. (Her sense of reality is like a movie) I'm just at a loss... was I too hard... should I just give her time. It's Christmas and I'm broken hearted. I've cried non stop since she left. She won't answer calls or messages. But I know she's safe. Please can anyone tell me this will get better. I'm not sure what to be doing.

Wow there’s a definite split between those who understand autism and those who don’t get it at all.

Seek help from professional services. If she’s had early help then go back to them and see what’s next. She might need some therapy/counselling, there might be classes she can attend for life skills, medications can be looked into. She might qualify for assisted living type places where she can be partly independent but guided by someone who is not you - my autistic teen learns really well from anyone except me but needs me all the same. It does sound like she’s struggling. I’ve literally just read a FB by Tony Atwood about sleep and ASD and how the two are connected. It’s a huge issue for most autistic. Maybe an evening job could be something to work towards - just a few hours. Look into jobs around gaming or computer based roles where she could use her skills. Or could she maybe take up a retail position in a gaming shop?? Are there courses she could look into that use gaming? I’ve got a friend who is a university lecturer on a degree that involves gaming so it’s not that far fetched an idea.

Definitely try the send boards for more help and ideas though as 18+ services aren’t something I know much about (yet). The sleep thing will take a while to sort out so a lot of things might not fall into place until that does - unless she can be supported overnight to focus on things other than gaming.

I would struggle to live like this OP but think you and she maybe need more support going forwards.

My DD is 17 almost 18 and still in 6th form. I realised during lockdown that she was struggling and probably needed additional support. I tried to get her to talk to me and gently suggested maybe counselling and or seeing the GP but she got angry and upset and outrightly refused to engage or consider either. She is up and down ok sometimes and seems lovely and thoughtful and to be maturing and coping then not so at other times. Her diet is appalling she eats a lot of beige and sweet foods so she could be hangry and or hormonal too. She has a part time job she found herself and is applying for Uni but I really worry how she will cope without support and away from home. She spends a lot of time in her room on her own and with her Best Friend, sleeps a lot (but always goes to school) but is often up very late crafting and playing games on her IPAD etc but thankfully she doesn’t wake us all up. She also has a filthy bedroom and doesn’t clear up after herself in the kitchen. Sometimes she seems to be getting better as said. But tonight I am treading on egg shells again. I think she is getting stressed about her A levels and Uni choices and is frustrated as her Best Friend hasn’t completed her personal statement. I think but she doesn’t say this she is just back to being really moody, awkward, argumentative and quick to anger mainly taking her moods out on me.

Take care OP

Thank you, I found that helpful. I’m learning.

PDA along with her ASD perhaps? Dont get me wrong, I have a child whose ASD and ADHD diagnosed and things get TOUGH... but as parents, we really need to aet them up for the world around them and sometimes they need to learn the hard way. I'd go to the parents house and explain your situation and tell them you expect her home. Then sit her down and explain that things need to change and that you understand that things are scary and uncertain for her but that together you can work something out to make sure she feels safe and secure as well as respected but that everyone in the house needs to be safe, secure and respected.

Stop calling and texting. You know she’s safe. If she doesn’t come home for Christmas so be it.

Remove the games etc. now. When she does come home sit her down immediately and set the new ground rules. If she doesn’t like it or doesn’t follow them she moves back out again.

Think of it as an intervention.

Sorry, but this is untrue and in fact autistic people, women and girls in particular tend to over empathise and deeply feel the emotions of others to the point of overwhelm.

OP your daughter reads as PDA autistic and I do know how hard this is. ‘Normal’ parenting techniques don’t work for PDA as the anxiety around lack of control is too high.

Did you have my post removed?

You certainly are not being unreasonable. Shes not a child shes 18. Yes shes on the spectrum but that doesn't excuse her self entitled behaviour at all. She needs boundaries regardless and right now she's overstepping them. Refusing to clean up after herself and staying in bed all day doing nothing is not on. She needs to learn to take some responsibility for herself. Shes disrespecting the whole household. I don't think the friends family will tolerate her ways for long and will most likely send her packing. Shes left because she wants you to beg her to come home and pander to her. When she does come home tell her she needs to earn privileges to the WiFi by actually doing something whether that be getting a job or going back into some form of education. She can't expect to live off parents forever without contributing something even if that contribution is simple as clearing up after herself and doing some chores around the house. My eldest is the same age and no longer lives with me. She was also lazy, dropped out of college and refused to get a job. Also refused to do anything. She brought a cat home which she persuaded my now ex husband to allow her to keep it but wouldn't clear up after the cat or take care of it. If i asked her to her response was "your house your problem" she left and refused to come back after an argument about her constant lies and disrespect so i directed her to the YMCA and told her if she was adamant she wasn't returning home she could secure herself a place in there. I also rehomed the cat that she refused to look after which didnt sit well initially and caused more animosity from her toward me. Shes been living independently for the last 10months now and has realised if she wants money and to treat herself she has to work for it so she got a job. I do miss her of course but I don't miss the drama that always seemed to come with her.

My son is on the spectrum and no way would I allow that behaviour. He is 14, autistic and on the 3rd percentile for processing speed meaning 97 people his age would understand what was said faster than he would. He does his chores or else no internet and no phone. We use family link to block all devices his phone, chrome book etc. We don't expect alot eg he has to sweep 3 times a week, do his room every day except Sunday, dust twice a week. They won't always have parents to run round after them and ive brought him up with the understanding we won't be here forever and though he doesn't do things properly and misses bits he does it as best he can. She may behave differently in a different environment, my son does and be what she needs. My son tends to get set in bad habits if not set straight immediately x

Inreqlly need to stress here, we have not "turfed" her out... she left.
Yes she has ASD but is very capable. She is just lazy. She had a part time.job and left it due to working with family. I get that and I supported it. However that as on the understanding she needed to find alternative work. Her diagnosis is never an excuse for anything.. she has always been at mainstream school and finished 6th form.

She certainly knows what buttons to press and how to manipulate situations.

We have always got her help and supported her in every which way we could.. even when that meant going behind her back with Early help team. She is my first born and I love her more than life. Hence why I was looking for support. I know her diagnosis makes her more vulnerable than NTs however she doesn't even see herself as ASD....
Apart from living her life for her I'm not sure what to be doing... she wants desperately to be an adult but I fear she doesn't grasp the reality

Thank you, this sounds very familiar. I thought she was doing better when she finished school but it's almost like a regression
Her bedroom is VILE but thats her space so we ignored it... ots spilled out to the main bathroom.. cannot let guests use it at all. I hope you manage to stay on top of things... I uave been told by all her docs that they take it out on those closest to them x

Well aren't your just marvellous

We have done and fought every inch to get thr help we need. Not even for us (which I've done all the parenting courses) but fought fir her diagnosis and to get thr early help last year. The trouble is my daughter knows exactly what buttons to press.. I've not kicked her put st all.. simply had a conversation that's turned into full row over her getting a job...

She wears headphones.. the issue is her speaking to her friends so loudly she doesn't realise if it's day or night... its like a laughing party at 3am... and not only do we work but we have an 8 Yr old daughter who has to go to school.

She may be 18 and considered an adult but autistic people often have developmental delays so it’s likely she won’t fully mature until her early/mid twenties.

See what support your council can offer. If she has an EHCP that should be in place until she is 25 and can cover therapy, college, life skills training etc. They should also help to prepare for the transition to independence eg supported accommodation.

Also look to see what local charities/organisations there are that provide jobs for autistic people, they will be much more flexible and supportive than a standard cafe/supermarket job.

When she comes back (she won’t be able to stay at her friends forever) set some rules. She has to be up and in bed at certain times, no gaming at night because it disturbs the rest of the family, her room has to be cleaned once a week, she has to get a job/study etc. Make it clear that her behaviour is negatively impacting the rest of you.

There’s a great book by Dr Ross Greene called the Explosive Child that would really help in how to approach each issue.

i Think a lot of people on this post assumed all people with autism suffer immensely and haven’t really considered it’s a spectrum.

I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong, she’s taking the piss. I know you’ve not truces her out but if my son with ASD did those things I would turf him out, he knows they are wrong just as your dd does

I’m an autistic adult and a therapist working a lot with autistic young adults. It sounds like your daughter might, like many at her age, be overwhelmed and burnt out after the school years but does not realise it and doesn’t have the skills or insight to cope. It sounds like she doesn’t accept being autistic either, and therefore may have exhausted herself masking through education, and has now got to this age and stage and finds she can’t meet the neurotypical mark here either.

This is NOT an excuse for the behaviour, but it may be a reason. I know this level of overwhelm, and how it can manifest. Demand avoidance and angry outbursts in particular. It’s not fun to feel and it’s not fun to be around either.

I also want to acknowledge this is extremely tough on you and the rest of the family, and being autistic does not mean you behave how you want to everyone, nor that there are no consequences when you treat others like crap.

Let her stay where she is and give things some time to calm down. It will be interesting if the same behaviours show up where she is, or not. If not, then why not - is it because she’s masking there, or genuinely are there things about that environment that work for her that don’t work at home, and what could you all learn from that I say all, as this does involve you all, not just her, changing behaviours. You can’t hold an autistic person to neurotypical standards she will simply never be able to conform to. Part of the issue may be that she too is struggling with that reality. Again, not an excuse to treat others badly and not be held to account though. It sounds like the job is the least of the worries here - it’s going back to basics wrt how you treat each other and communicate.

I really recommend Kieran Rose’s “The Inside of Autism” course for parents and carers (and professionals). It’s led by lived experience and offers great insight into the autistic mind, which can help with understanding what is going on in your interactions. Often, resources on autism are written by neurotypicals who have not a single clue what life is actually like for us. Also autistic affirmative therapy or perhaps coaching, if she can’t engage with therapy. Parents/carers can also benefit a lot from therapy and coaching too, even if the young person isn’t able or willing to engage. Just somewhere to let out the stress, process it and think with someone unconnected about how to do things differently.

Thank you OP that would be me then as DH seems to get off quite lightly but I normally cop for it.

I/we are in no mans land with our daughter. She keeps her bedroom door closed and I rarely go in as I find it too much and too upsetting except to hoover once a week, pick wet towels up off the floor every few days. She doesn’t make her bed or put clothes in the wash basket or pick anything up etc. She won’t accept any affection from us, mimics me if I smile at her and often struggles to take part in a conversation. She has taken to mostly calling or referring to myself and DH by our christian names.

Its ok people giving advice about what behaviour they are willing to accept but if child is ND it is a whole different ball game. Take care OP 💐 🍫 🍷 💐

Not sure where I said I was marvellous.
I also did not comment on your kicking her out.
I was trying to help, from my experience.
It seems to me that you're being ableist and assuming neurotypical, conscious behaviour by your daughter instead of stepping back and looking for other, less negative and more innate reasons.
Hopefully you can resolve this situation and move forward.

@RavenclawsPrincess that is really good advice.

OP, my DS is also ASD and we have been through a similar crisis to yours twice. Each time I was terrified that I had lost him. I always left the way open for him to come back (texting him to see how he was doing etc) and little by little he thawed out. Our relationship is currently very strong. Be reassured that your DD is safe and use the time apart to focus on the rest of your family. Try to keep your messages to her calm, supportive and factual. When you are both ready to talk about her returning, then make it clear that there are certain behaviours you won't accept - no matter what her issues are, there is no excuse for keeping you all awake at night.

I know exactly how you feel with Christmas coming up. I hope things are better by then, but maybe the break is what you all need - including your DD.

@Earthrocknroll huge generalisation there. Many struggle with emotional empathy. Not cognitive. And can only relate if they themselves can connect to the situation. Actually seeing it from someone else’s point of view can be hugely challenging.

example. If I’m around someone who hates parties. I get it. I share in that hatred and all the anxiety it creates. it’s overwhelming. I feel it.

if I come across someone who’s got simulator feelings in relation to pain or blood I cannot connect at all. Because it doesn’t relate to me.

OP please look into PDA if you haven't already, from your comments it sounds worth looking into. A profile of Autism but with very dominant demand anxiety - and when pushed to do things a PDAer isn't ready for the consequences can be terrible, and massively affect the whole family. Speaking from experience. And normal parenting strategies just do not work - collaboration is key. This book is a great start:

Understanding Pathological Demand Avoidance Syndrome in Children by
Ruth Fidler and Zara Healy Phil Christie, Margaret Duncan

Ignore the tantrum
Don't give in.

Op, I could have written this post, every word of it. I am going through exactly what you describe right now and it is unbelievably difficult. I don't think many understand unless you are living this experience. My dd is autistic, level 1 on the spectrum,comes across as very entitled and selfish, rude to me and her siblings. Things came to a head two weeks ago and I told her if she doesn't like our rules in our home then she is welcome to leave. She packed her bags and left for three nights. Despite all the promises to change, we are back to the same old situation. I can't take much more of the verbal abuse I get daily. I do understand that it's a combination of her being selfish but also an issue of her being unable to live life as neurotypical people do. I would love to talk more to you private as I think we could both benefit from chatting to someone who seems to be going through the same challenges. I'm not sure how to contact a poster privately on mumsnet..does anybody know how I could do that. It's totally fine if you don't want to chat privately, I understand that everyone is on their own personal journey when dealing with adult children who are in the spectrum.

I've only joined today to get advice so I have no idea how to do this but I would love it

This comment right here was everything I was going to say. I gave mild autism as well. I don’t know how bad you’re daughters is but it sounds like it’d she is smart enough to run away to a friends house then she is smart enough to fend for herself. You were right to put your foot down. Perhaps she will learn some humility once her friend’s family gets sick of her.