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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I might well be unreasonable but here goes.....

262 replies

cocktailclub · 18/12/2022 21:20

It seems that a lot of the working age population now are snowflakes or incompetent or just don't care enough to do a good job. It's rare to manage people who actually work reliably the hours they are paid to.
I just wonder what would happen to the economy in general if
A) employees turned up and worked hard for the hours they were paid
B) employees only took sick leave when they were really unwell
C) employees did not regard the usual ups and downs of life as 'mental health' but reserved that for people with actual mental illness like clinical depression, schizophrenia etc
D) employees just genuinely cared about doing a good job and tried hard

Also would the NHS thrive if we weren't all so dependent on referrals for minor issues and just took a bit of ownership and responsibility for staying well.

If people stopped blaming social workers for child abuse and looked at the parents.

Sorry a bit of a rant but I'm disillusioned

OP posts:
Honper · 18/12/2022 21:45

True.

YONDER SNOWFLAKE, FORSOOTH

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 18/12/2022 21:46

Maybe the current workforce are fucked off with busting a gut earning massive profits for The Man, handing all their wages over in ridiculously high utilities, pensions that we won't ever be retired to claim, mortgage providers who now need two full time salaries to buy a hovel.

Maybe the current workforce are stuck in the ambulances they work in for 10 hours waiting to admit sick patients to hospitals with no space as they are full of people needing social care.

Maybe the current workforce are being made to feel incompetent or ungrateful by generations who maintain the "we had it harder" party line which is basically a toddlers defence.

MrsTerryPratchett · 18/12/2022 21:47

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Well yes. Worth saying that the workshy stoner on my team is in his 50s.

PAFMO · 18/12/2022 21:47

Did you type anything else after the word "snowflake" ?
Because I filed you under the goady fucker banner at that point.

Original poster
cocktailclub · 18/12/2022 21:48

I'm not a troll
I am fed up
It is a two way street but I only see things going one way

OP posts:
Original poster
cocktailclub · 18/12/2022 21:48

Pumperthepumper · 18/12/2022 21:36

But look at that logically: even if it is the parents’ fault, does that mean the child should suffer?

Of course the child should not suffer
But parents should be accountable

OP posts:
BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 18/12/2022 21:49

It may be worth asking yourself why the people you manage aren't engaged in their work?

Presumably you aren't making assumptions about people who you don't actually know.

rwalker · 18/12/2022 21:50

Pixiedust1234 · 18/12/2022 21:28

I wonder what would happen if employers paid decent wages with fixed hours contracts. You might actually find motivated employees! Mind blowing, eh?

Mine does and we have the issue OP listed

Pumperthepumper · 18/12/2022 21:50

cocktailclub · 18/12/2022 21:48

Of course the child should not suffer
But parents should be accountable

Show quote history

In what way? How do you hold them accountable?

MiniTheMinx · 18/12/2022 21:52

AdventFridgeOfShame · 18/12/2022 21:41

B) employees only took sick leave when they were really unwell

most companies only pay SSP
Nobody takes a sickie lightly
I know several people who ploughed on after a positive Covid test because that was what they could afford
Many workers are subject to a disciplinary and written warning after a short period of sickness

Well this is it. Most people only receive SSP.

If the employer only pays for hours worked and doesn't pay for hours not worked its irrelevant really if someone is sick. If they take sick leave they are not paid, if they are not paid they owe their employer no work for hours unpaid. May as well be self employed or zero hours and paid only for hours worked.

RunnerBum · 18/12/2022 21:53

cocktailclub · 18/12/2022 21:48

I'm not a troll
I am fed up
It is a two way street but I only see things going one way

As I'm the PP who used the phrase "it's a two way street", I'll take this as a response. If you can still only see one side then you clearly either didn't read what I wrote or you disagree. What do you disagree with because I thought it was pretty indisputable?

WinterDeWinter · 18/12/2022 21:54

MiniTheMinx · 18/12/2022 21:35

I wonder what life would be like if we had true equality. If people had a fair share of the profit from their labour, if people had free education at degree and post grad level, if children had happy unstressed parents and we had fully funded fully functioning social welfare, infrastructure and an NHS that kept us all healthy and productive.

More than anything I wonder what life would be like if we had leaders who represented both the will and welfare of the people, instead of representatives of the elite and the capitalist pig dog exploiting fuckers that are destroying our planet, our lives, and our future.

I was with you until 'capitalist pig dog' and then I was so with you that I was nearly sitting in your lap and you had to tell me to back off.

RunnerBum · 18/12/2022 21:54

rwalker · 18/12/2022 21:50

Mine does and we have the issue OP listed

Show quote history

Then you need to adopt a better recruitment process. How are you so consistently selecting such poor candidates?

Bard6817 · 18/12/2022 21:54

MiniTheMinx · 18/12/2022 21:35

I wonder what life would be like if we had true equality. If people had a fair share of the profit from their labour, if people had free education at degree and post grad level, if children had happy unstressed parents and we had fully funded fully functioning social welfare, infrastructure and an NHS that kept us all healthy and productive.

More than anything I wonder what life would be like if we had leaders who represented both the will and welfare of the people, instead of representatives of the elite and the capitalist pig dog exploiting fuckers that are destroying our planet, our lives, and our future.

So what do you call this system?

Fair share of the fruits of their labour? That’s wages/salary. If they want to be an owner, or a shareholder, they have to take on risk. That’s the fairest system.

Theres no such thing as free degrees…. Someone has to pay…. Do you make everyone pay for everyone else, or is it the person who benefits who pays?

We have an extensive welfare system - it’s not perfect and encourages people to work - but bear in mind, people who work make it possible and there’s no finite supply of tax.

I think you might need to disengage from social media for a bit, you’ve been listening to Greta a bit too much.

We do need better leaders…. I don’t know how to fix that.

Nhs is dying…. It’s a money pit. It’s far too politicised for it to be fixed.

ThisGirlNever · 18/12/2022 21:55

RunnerBum · 18/12/2022 21:35

Ok 🙄

Let's be honest - it's a two-way street.

A) employees turned up and worked hard for the hours they were paid

I am just about the strongest believer in the world of the idea that if you do a job then you should do it well. However, there should be recognition for working hard. In my experience, in a huge number of workplaces, people are actually punished for working hard - if employee A works hard but employee B doesn't work hard, employee A will be given more workload to do. So, you're punished for doing well. People who perform well in a role are denied promotions in order to ensure they stay doing well in a department - that's unfair.

B) employees only took sick leave when they were really unwell

Many employers refuse to accommodate people's lives. People are then left needing to lie about illness to cover other aspects of their lives - like children's nativity plays or taking a dog to the vet. If employers were more open to employees having a life outside of work then it would mean employers get more notice of time off being needed and employees can get the flexibility that's required.

C) employees did not regard the usual ups and downs of life as 'mental health' but reserved that for people with actual mental illness like clinical depression, schizophrenia etc

Everyone has mental health just like everyone has physical health. Your comment is ignorant and ridiculous. If you don't maintain your mental health then you can become mentally ill. Attacking people for looking after their mental health is exceptionally ironic considering your rant goes on to complain that people need to take "a bit of ownership and responsibility for staying well".

D) employees just genuinely cared about doing a good job and tried hard

Most do. See point A.

Also would the NHS thrive if we weren't all so dependent on referrals for minor issues and just took a bit of ownership and responsibility for staying well.

Minor issues become major issues. Almost no one on the NHS is getting any help at the moment - people are dying of heart attacks and being denied emergency care. What planet are you on?

If people stopped blaming social workers for child abuse and looked at the parents.

Both can be to blame. Both are to blame. Do you think we should just eradicate social workers? Again, this point is exceptionally ironic in the light of your rant about people needing to do their jobs well - why do social workers doing their job poorly get a pass?

Surely you can see both sides of the coin on all your points? (Like any rational person).

This is a massive problem and it results in the hard working people leaving. The workshy dregs remain.

I've experienced this in multiple jobs. Some people are allowed to do absolutely nothing, because they're too much hassle, whilst more and more work is piled onto a handful of people - but everybody gets paid the same.

Pumperthepumper · 18/12/2022 21:56

ThisGirlNever · 18/12/2022 21:55

This is a massive problem and it results in the hard working people leaving. The workshy dregs remain.

I've experienced this in multiple jobs. Some people are allowed to do absolutely nothing, because they're too much hassle, whilst more and more work is piled onto a handful of people - but everybody gets paid the same.

Show quote history

So then the actual problem is ‘weak management’.

MushMonster · 18/12/2022 21:57

Interesting... we already do all these things at my current and past workplaces. Also, most of the people I know, bar some snowflakes here and there, so from my point of view, the present situation is what you get when you apply all your points.
But, the present system does not work. The strain due to the gas prices is proving that our finantial and political landscape needs full on remodelling and hard hard work. UK and likely most of the world.
We cannot carry on with a system that gathers all the money in a few pockets and all the hard labour on the rest.

Sapphire387 · 18/12/2022 21:57

Let's hear some examples then, OP. Rather than just a general 'holier than thou' rant.

RunnerBum · 18/12/2022 21:59

ThisGirlNever · 18/12/2022 21:55

This is a massive problem and it results in the hard working people leaving. The workshy dregs remain.

I've experienced this in multiple jobs. Some people are allowed to do absolutely nothing, because they're too much hassle, whilst more and more work is piled onto a handful of people - but everybody gets paid the same.

Show quote history

Ironically, it's one of the reasons that the NHS is being run into the ground. 50% work shy who expect to be treated like saints and Gods. 50% desperate to help people and relentlessly picking up the slack for the other 50% (running themselves to another profession, sick leave with stress or suicide as a result).

Swimmingistoocold · 18/12/2022 22:00

i see this a lot in my current public sector role, and is one of the reasons I am looking to go back into the private sector. Too many people are too hard to sack, and there is no easy way to recognise and reward hard work - payscale, no bonuses - so many don’t bother striving, or working in a professional manner. The maximum reward they can offer is some shopping vouchers up to a value of £500, and endless forms would need to be filled in to get this ‘reward’. I’ve told my manager it’s not worth the effort.

workplaces are far more productive and efficient where employees have the incentive of seeing their hard work financially rewarded.

tillytown · 18/12/2022 22:00

People don't take enough sick days as it is, why ask them to reduce them even more?
Also, most people don't earn enough money to live even though they work full time or more, so why would they "work harder" when they get nothing from it?

MiniTheMinx · 18/12/2022 22:00

Bard6817 it's called socialism. I didn't dream it up and I'm not some green meanie glued to a road either.

frostyfours · 18/12/2022 22:00

theswoot · 18/12/2022 21:32

WELL, everyone did all the things you listed for years and years and it produced the society we have now, so doesn’t seem that great if you ask me.

Touché!

Well said Grin

Swimmingistoocold · 18/12/2022 22:01

But yeh, I think you are being goady in painting everyone with the same brush.

JamSandle · 18/12/2022 22:01

nearlyjarv · 18/12/2022 21:29

minimum wage = minimum effort. you get what you give

This.