I might well be unreasonable but here goes.....

[cocktailclub]

It seems that a lot of the working age population now are snowflakes or incompetent or just don't care enough to do a good job. It's rare to manage people who actually work reliably the hours they are paid to.
I just wonder what would happen to the economy in general if
A) employees turned up and worked hard for the hours they were paid
B) employees only took sick leave when they were really unwell
C) employees did not regard the usual ups and downs of life as 'mental health' but reserved that for people with actual mental illness like clinical depression, schizophrenia etc
D) employees just genuinely cared about doing a good job and tried hard

Also would the NHS thrive if we weren't all so dependent on referrals for minor issues and just took a bit of ownership and responsibility for staying well.

If people stopped blaming social workers for child abuse and looked at the parents.

Sorry a bit of a rant but I'm disillusioned

Oh piss off. You can't even be bothered to represent your opinions honestly. You've got no business coming it the high & mighty, you tone deaf twit.

I would have said I had a good work ethic, and was lucky to be well enough to do A to D for my long career in a government department.

When it came to the staff levels being drastically reduced I applied, with many others, for voluntary redundancy with a fairly generous package.

My application was refused due to ‘needs of the business’

I understand the logic of course, but at the end of the day being a hardworking, productive member of staff isn’t always beneficial to the employee.

As well as not getting a decent package those of us who were regarded as very productive, therefore business critical, just ended up with even more work, as the workload didn’t reduce to match the staffing levels.

I work in a large organisation and the older cohorts are by far the biggest piss-takers. The younger ones are much more eager to please.

This post was tongue in cheek to promote a debate and discussion

Yeah, sure it was.

So it's best to have 'needs' rather than 'abilities' then?

Everyone has needs and abilities, unless you are now suggesting children with SEN, adults with disabilities and the elderly or sick are simply a waste of oxygen? Not a good look!

I'm saying that any system that rewards 'needs' will result in people exaggerating their needs and playing the system, whilst simultaneously demotivating people that do work.

Socialism has never worked, doesn't work now and will never work (until we live in a completely automated society).

If people stopped blaming social workers for child abuse and looked at the parents.

OK, so we take away the child protection function from social services and tell parents they must stop abusing their children. Do you want to be one of the children involved?

Couldn't agree more. I own a restaurant and honestly can't believe the shit I have to put up with with my staff. It was always a thing to have respect (maybe a little fear haha) for your boss and work your ass off and at least pretend to if they're around. My guys do not give a shit, and it's not really their fault I just don't think kids are taught the same anymore

To all the employers on here who are moaning about your minimum wage staff, maybe if you paid your staff a living wage rather than having the tax payer pick up the bill, as most of your staff who are minimum wage will rely completely on tax credits to survive because your wage is so poor, you might actually get decent staff that respect you? Nobody is interested in bending over backwards to earn you a packet, to pay off your third holiday home, when you pay them barely enough to pay their rent and bills. It’s not rocket science.

Maybe people are just sick of being managed by fear, and workplaces haven't quite caught up to treating staff with a modicum of respect.

I’ve taken nearly a year’s sick leave at this point.

I’ve had cancer. And gall stones. At the same time.

What I actually need is probably another year’s rest from work to build my strength back up. And this should be financially possible because I took out critical illness cover. But… critical illness cover relies on a consultant report to pay out. And without it I couldn’t afford to resign. So on the sick I stayed, providing extra work for HR and my manager - who have both been very nice.

The request for a report went in in June. But the NHS is snowed under and no one has time for nonessential stuff, particularly as people keep thinking nonclinical work is unimportant. I chased it regularly until I finally raised it with PALS a few weeks ago out of bare desperation - I hate being a pain but I literally am running out of money.

Phone call came in to say it was signed off by insurance came through last week - so now I can finally resign and stop worrying about needing to force myself back ill. Just one example of how when systems back up everyone loses.

The shift from an employer's market for staff to a very resource constrained environment has been a shock for a lot of workplaces, particularly those where management practices relied on the threat of unemployment to drive performance.

Without that abundance of available labour, less skilled managers and particularly 'take it or leave it' workplaces with poor pay and conditions are struggling.

In my days working in hospitality, in a country with better pay and conditions, the difference between the places that worked to earn your respect as a worker and those that didn't were the difference between the ones with great staff that thrived and the ones that got a reputation.

🤣😂🤣😂🤣

Haha, yeah, its funny isn't it, that grown adults have to go to work scared of their boss, that isn't de-grading or humiliating at all!

Employers expect respect from their staff but aren't prepared to give it back, it shouldn't work like that - that could go some way to explaining why you have so much shit to put up with from your staff maybe?

Hmmm.... Maybe your terrible attitude and poor management skills are attracting the wrong employees?

I'm just shocked you used the word Snowflakes without sarcasm 🙄

@Mulhollandmagoo whooooo calm down princess.

In the public sector they take sick days
6 months of them
On full pay

I've worked in the public sector my whole adult life. I've only ever known two colleagues take a full 6 months off work. One had cancer, one lost a child in particularly horrific circumstances.

It's rare to manage people who actually work reliably the hours they are paid to.

Not IME. I've had the pleasure of line-managing way more truly committed, trustworthy and hardworking people than I have people who took the piss. I work in the public sector and can't offer my staff anywhere near the salaries I feel they deserve but I'm regularly blow away by my colleagues dedication to the community we serve and their willingness to go above and beyond.

It's funny how everyone jumps up an down when an actual owner of a restaurant pops in here to agree with the fact that the labour market is pretty horrific for small British businesses. Unsurprising after 12 years of austerity, restriction of freedom of movement, and a global pandemic.

I suspect the ones doing it are happily tucked away in their large multinational making lots of money for big US companies with no worries about resources. Easy to be a 'good manager' when you're being paid to asset strip your own Country.

I assume you're happy to absorb the increase in costs for British Businesses if they do this though?

I suppose you're that rare bird that avoids amazon, buys british phones, clothes, etc. at a much higher price than foreign imports that rely on explotative labour?

A line manager in the public sector. The public sector is not exactly renowned for it's efficiency and value for money, plus it doesn't have to be competitive or risk going under.

This is the same argument that was trotted out at the start of the minimum wage and trotted out at every increase in it since then.

Australia provides an interesting comparison. Prices are higher but wages are also much higher, employment protections are better (eg extra protections/pay for casual/zero hours staff), outperforms the UK on so many economic measures.

The tables have really turned in favour of employees, even in the private sector where there are so few unions. Threaten to sack someone and they will just say fine go ahead!

People will work longer than their contracted hours but only if there is a reasonable chance of promotion or a decent bonus. Otherwise why should they?

Australia has different employment laws.

So what does this have to do with employers?