Sydney or Edinburgh, to live?

[Cathy31]

This will be long. The question is AIBU to want to move to Edinburgh, not Sydney?

YANBU - move to Edinburgh
YABU - move to Sydney

I'm married with 2 DC, 3rd on the way. I'm from the Scottish Highlands, DH from Sydney but with British citizenship. He's lived in the UK his whole adult life. We live in a smallish town in midlands England. It's nice enough, we know some lovely people, DC are settled in a fab school/ nursery, and we have no mortgage. But we have no family nearby, and no old friends here.

We're here because of my job, but it's a temporary contract in a very niche sector, which requires regular moves (sometimes to different countries). Since having children, we've decided that it's best for us as a family if I change career. We're both happy for me to be a SAHM for a few years while our children are young.

So - we had to decide whether to stay where we are, because life is fine here, or to move, because life could be better elsewhere.

We've decided to move. But where should we move to? DH is arguing for Sydney.
Reasons:

• His mother is there. She has no other family, and has said she'd be glad to help out with childcare.
• Health service/ public services generally are well funded, reliable.
• DH has some wonderful friends, that he's known for 20+ years. I get on really well with these people too.
• THE WEATHER

Problems:

• Expensive, so we'd both have to work to afford a flat in a decent area. Even now, PT with two DC here, life feels busy, and sometimes overwhelming, so it feels big to have the financial burden.
• So far from everyone I know and love.
• I'd need a visa for work, which would mean we'd have to move out and live there for a while before I could start looking for work.

I'm arguing for Edinburgh. Reasons:

• My relationship with my parents isn't great, but DC love them, and my wider family is wonderful, including some lovely cousins for DC.
• I'd love DC to grow up speaking Gaelic, playing traditional Scottish music etc etc. It's hard to put the value of this into words, but it's very important, and DH recognises that it's something Sydney can't offer.
• We're able to afford a flat, the same size as our current house, in the centre of Edinburgh, on a mortgage small enough that I wouldn't need to work.
• Some of our oldest mutual friends live there. Most of our other mutual friends live in Britain, so we'd continue to see them a fair bit.

Problems:

• It's freezing. We couldn't afford a bigger place than we currently have unless we lived far from the centre, which isn't a problem in a hot climate, but in Edinburgh, it seems important to have living space...
• So far from the people DH feels closest to.

We feel quite sure that we could have a better life in either Edinburgh or Sydney than we do where we currently live. But which one would be best? Which one will our children be glad they grew up in?

Haha, we won't be moving to Melbourne but the occasional long weekend there while DC stay with mil is a major bonus for the Sydney option...

Go for a few years while the kids are still young enough and see how you get on! That way at least you will have tried and won’t have any regrets even if you do decide it’s not for you. We have done the same, but in the opposite direction (not forever - we will return eventually). Agree with ppl housing and food are pretty pricey there - would pay to look into how far your money can stretch for different types of houses/locations first. You’ll spend more time driving there than here. On the other hand, lots of fab free things to do, lots more time outdoors obvs. There will be enough ppl from “home” to have plenty of expat communities that you can join. Having grown up not in Sydney but in a Similar part of the world, I am very grateful to have had the childhood experience that I did (tho I am biased of course and am sure many would say the same about Scotland!)

"History" somehow means "old buildings". Actual history is irrelevant if there isn't an old building involved.

Not Oz, but I could show them some lovely old buildings in Mesa Verde!

I don't think I'd pin so much on a single primary school tbh. I also think you do adapt to heat, though once it's over 35 that's difficult. What you really need to learn is adapting to strong sun.

Don't ever go to Aberdeen if you think Edinburgh is grey 😁

@Barbudura I'm so sorry to hear what your cousin has experienced. I hope she's met some good people out there too, who can support her. We're white, and - white privilege - just don't have to worry about, say, DC enduring racist bullying at school. But I'd hate for them to grow up in a culture where it's common/ where they might become perpetrators. And I agree that the way Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are treated/ talked about in their own country can be shocking.

I've been to both, and for " future home" I'd pick Edinburgh.

His mother wouldn't be a deciding factor because her lifespan is finite.

@Doidontimmm 😀

Poisonous bitey things everywhere or deep fried Mars bars. Hmmmmm……………

@emmathedilemma Ha! I've been, used to live in Dundee as well and that was worse. At east the granite sparkles! Glasgow used to be the same - they darkened all the buildings during the war but now, they're lovely!

Curious as to how this is possible? Edinburgh is so expensive and property is creeping up to London prices.

I think you need to consider more about the career opportunities and exactly how long it could take you to arrange a visa in Australia.

Also, are you all outdoors/sporty people, or do you prefer more cultural activities? Do you like to travel for short breaks? If you like sport, Sydney may be better, but IMO the culture is boring there, and the variety is limited. I lived in Australia for 29 years. I wouldn't live there again.

The health system is getting very overloaded in Sydney as well now, and I know people who have had problems with private care there.

Do you know for sure that your MIL wants to look after your grandkids? Don't assume so! She probably has her own life!

How old are your DC? I personally favour the education system in Edinburgh compared to Australia. Do you need to consider their university options yet?

Personally, I would choose Edinburgh. July and August were horrific, and reminded me how much I utterly loathe the heat. Give me snow and ice ANY day. No way would I move to a hot country, certainly not as the Earth is getting warmer. We hit 40 degrees in Essex this July. And that was Essex! What will the summers be like in Sydney come the 2030s?

Also, I'm not much of an outdoors person. I prefer history, literature, etc. People moan about the UK, but for cultural history it can't be beaten. Places like Edinburgh, Bath, York, Oxford, Cambridge and London are endlessly fascinating. I'd much rather wander round a city like Edinburgh on a snowy day than lounge on an Australian beach in the hot sun. You'd also be near the Highlands, which I love SO much.

For me, the one big appeal of Australia is the space. The UK is suffocatingly crowded.

Long weekend with 9 hours of driving or a flight? It's not exactly a quick trip!

So what? The cultural variety is still far more limited. That's just a fact.

Yeah it’s so hot I haven’t left the house in months. 🙄🙄🙄 honestly the lack of critical thinking on this thread is unbelievable!

Sydney is a city of over 5 million people. It teems with cultural experiences. Arts festivals, writers festivals, live music, ballet, opera, classical theatre, orchestras, experimental theatre, contemporary dance, musicals, comedy etc etc.

www.songkick.com/metro-areas/26794-australia-sydney/2023

So many popular artists 🙄

How strong is your marriage? Bear in mind that if you moved to Australia and separated, you would probably be unable to move back the UK as your children would be considered resident there.

So you could be stuck in Australia, possibly without the right to work if your visa was spousal and at worst could be forced back to the UK without your children.

OP,

Something I forgot to mention but was important in our decision not to move back to Spain when DH's work project ended.

Your DH is Australian and while you and your children will arrive in Australia with a visa, it'll only take a couple of years for you to apply for permanent residency. You can then go back to the UK with a permanent re-entry visa which will last you, and your children, a lifetime provided you come back to Australia every 5 years to re-new it.

We don't know what the world is going to be in 20 years time, but giving your children the opportunity to live and work freely in Australia is something to consider.

We've all seen what Brexit has done to future generations in the UK by taking away their right to live and work freely in the EU. My impression is that things are going to get worse everywhere, and having that option, may be crucial.

Agree! Try living in the catchment of one of the few good secondary’s in Edinburgh and I can guarantee you’ll both be working. You’d be very lucky indeed to find something for under £500k.

Haven't RTFT but popping in to say SPIDERS. The Edinburgh kind are small and inoffensive. Sydney...

You mentioned retraining. Do you mean something that takes a long time? It would be much easier to do this while not having to work full-time as soon as you can. Why not move to Edinburgh while you retrain and think again in 3 to 5 years? Your flat should have held its value in Edinburgh better than in the midlands too if there’s any kind of property drop. And is the eventual job market better or worse in each place?
I do wonder though if your DH should talk to a counsellor about his feelings around his dad, because it sounds like he’s struggling a bit.

Oh and there are about 2 streets in leith that haven’t been gentrified now - I think the OP would notice the difference between picking a home in the banana flats versus a double upper near the Links.

Yeah, spiders isn’t really an argument unless you have a phobia about them. It’s a major city and the areas OP is interested (inner west) just aren’t major spider areas. They’ll probably get the occasional huntsman which can be big and scary looking but they are majorly very shy (can deliver a painful bite - non poisonous I’ve read, but I don’t know anyone who has actually been bitten by one).

There’s an anti venom for funnel web spiders now. Hence, the last person to have died from a funnel web bite was over 30 years ago, I think. Funnel webs are not likely to be a problem in the inner-west of Sydney.