Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Sydney or Edinburgh, to live?

270 replies

Cathy31 · 14/12/2022 20:52

This will be long. The question is AIBU to want to move to Edinburgh, not Sydney?

YANBU - move to Edinburgh
YABU - move to Sydney

I'm married with 2 DC, 3rd on the way. I'm from the Scottish Highlands, DH from Sydney but with British citizenship. He's lived in the UK his whole adult life. We live in a smallish town in midlands England. It's nice enough, we know some lovely people, DC are settled in a fab school/ nursery, and we have no mortgage. But we have no family nearby, and no old friends here.

We're here because of my job, but it's a temporary contract in a very niche sector, which requires regular moves (sometimes to different countries). Since having children, we've decided that it's best for us as a family if I change career. We're both happy for me to be a SAHM for a few years while our children are young.

So - we had to decide whether to stay where we are, because life is fine here, or to move, because life could be better elsewhere.

We've decided to move. But where should we move to? DH is arguing for Sydney.
Reasons:

  • His mother is there. She has no other family, and has said she'd be glad to help out with childcare.
  • Health service/ public services generally are well funded, reliable.
  • DH has some wonderful friends, that he's known for 20+ years. I get on really well with these people too.
  • THE WEATHER
Problems:
  • Expensive, so we'd both have to work to afford a flat in a decent area. Even now, PT with two DC here, life feels busy, and sometimes overwhelming, so it feels big to have the financial burden.
  • So far from everyone I know and love.
  • I'd need a visa for work, which would mean we'd have to move out and live there for a while before I could start looking for work.
I'm arguing for Edinburgh. Reasons:
  • My relationship with my parents isn't great, but DC love them, and my wider family is wonderful, including some lovely cousins for DC.
  • I'd love DC to grow up speaking Gaelic, playing traditional Scottish music etc etc. It's hard to put the value of this into words, but it's very important, and DH recognises that it's something Sydney can't offer.
  • We're able to afford a flat, the same size as our current house, in the centre of Edinburgh, on a mortgage small enough that I wouldn't need to work.
  • Some of our oldest mutual friends live there. Most of our other mutual friends live in Britain, so we'd continue to see them a fair bit.
Problems:
  • It's freezing. We couldn't afford a bigger place than we currently have unless we lived far from the centre, which isn't a problem in a hot climate, but in Edinburgh, it seems important to have living space...
  • So far from the people DH feels closest to.

We feel quite sure that we could have a better life in either Edinburgh or Sydney than we do where we currently live. But which one would be best? Which one will our children be glad they grew up in?

OP posts:
napody · 14/12/2022 21:30

champagneandsparkles · 14/12/2022 21:18

You, personally, will pretty much undoubtedly have a better time in Edinburgh from everything you say. The question is how DH feels about it. Does he actively not want to live there? Is he desperate to move "home" to Sydney or does he more just regard it as practical on paper? I wouldn't move to Sydney, but if he really doesn't want to move to Edinburgh then I'd agree to stay put.given that you sound pretty happy where you are already.

Also, only you can say how reliable your marriage is and if it's truly rock solid that's fine, but to be stranded in Australia if you separated (assuming DH wouldn't let them leave with you) would potentially be a very heavy burden.

That last point was my first thought too, sorry its a downer to consider but my cousin is in that situation and it's truly awful.

On a brighter note, I lived in edinburgh for a few years and ADORE it.

Original poster
Cathy31 · 14/12/2022 21:31

Great questions/ issues raised. Re the marriage - it's 100% solid. We've been through an incredibly hard few years, and are still best friends, as we have been for a decade. Unimaginable possibilities aside, we'll be together forever, wherever we end up living.

We've lived in Sydney for nearly a year, pre children, and have visited for a month several times before and since. I don't mind the heat (though I don't like the humidity). I never found it dangerous (?), and could happily live between beaches and bars for most of my life, though that's true whatever the weather! Also found the culture/ history fascinating (50,000+ years of it). But I would miss European holidays.

Re DH side of the family, his mother does put in the effort, and would continue to visit us, for a month a year, if we move to Edinburgh. DC love her dearly (and would be delighted to live in Sydney to be near her). My own family would visit, maybe, once if we moved to Sydney.

OP posts:
Cosmos123 · 14/12/2022 21:33

Sydney is far too hot now.

Also really expensive.

Edinburgh is by far the more sensible choice.

mynameisnotkate · 14/12/2022 21:36

I agree with other pp that from a weather point of view I would much prefer Edinburgh. It can be a bit dreich and cold but I much prefer that to the endless heat and humidity of a Sydney summer. Good summer weather in Scotland is to my mind the perfect weather (though admittedly we often get very little of it …)

The Gaelic school in Leith is great and giving them two languages is a huge gift. Sure, it’s not a very practical language from a career point of view, but the richness of the culture and the benefits of being bilingual are huge pluses.

Edinburgh by a mile for me. A bit tough on your DH, but he chose to settle down and have a family in the UK so I think has committed to this.

mackthepony · 14/12/2022 21:39

I think the kids would benefit and appreciate Australia more.

Endofmytetherfinally · 14/12/2022 21:42

Weather is so subjective isn't it. When I moved from the UK many people told me Melbourne was more bearable than Sydney and I found it the opposite. Too hot in summer and bloody freezing the rest of the time. I love Sydney weather bar the bushfires. My mood is 150% improved each morning when I open the blinds to sunshine.

StartupRepair · 14/12/2022 21:47

Housing in Sydney is ridiculously expensive and public transport is patchy. It is a glorious city to live in if you are wealthy. I would say Edinburgh but maybe do 6 months or a year in Sydney while DC are young.

Cocolatte24 · 14/12/2022 21:58

Having lived just a bit further north in brisbane and the gold coast for close to 10 years I can assure the weather is not a positiv. The heat is completely oppressive and they have no real seasons. I was there just three weeks ago to visit and it just reconfirmed to me that the UK was the better option. 35 degrees and high humidity.. at the start of summer.. no thanks.

Also, they have little to no historical attractions, the wildlife can be pretty intense, they are far from any other countries bar New Zealand, they lack cultural diversity, the property prices are insane, they are suffering from a similar increase in high utility prices to us, wokeism is strife... it goes on.

Wormwoodgal · 14/12/2022 22:08

Great points made so far. I'm in Edinburgh and love it (no children though). Never been to Australia.
My thought is that since you would be giving up your job to be primary carer, with everything else being equal you should get your preference of place to live.

Maverick101 · 14/12/2022 22:10

pattihews · 14/12/2022 21:18

Only spent a few days in Sydney but I found it dull — but then I couldn't live without history, theatre, good galleries and museums etc. One can only spend so much time on beaches and in bars. Former neighbours of ours moved there for his job but came back within a couple of years: they found dealing with the heat and sun with two small children difficult. The wife hated it, talked about having to spend summer months stuck indoors with the children. The cost of living was crazy: food much more expensive than here.

Edinburgh every time for me, despite the rain and the cold. And you have the rest of Scotland at hand to explore.

So why didn't you spend some of those few days visiting some of the many galleries and museums on offer in Sydney? Or maybe going to the theatre? There are several in Sydney -- and the Opera House isn't just there for tourist photos on the steps, it's a venue with over 2000 performances per year.

buddhasbelly · 14/12/2022 22:12

Re the Gaelic language part - I’m sitting next to someone who wouldn’t have their job if they didn’t speak Gaelic. I appreciate folk probably mean comparatively speaking to a more widely spoken language but it does have its uses. I say this as someone who studied a very ‘desirable’ language but never use it!

Tinkywinkydinkydoo · 14/12/2022 22:13

I lived in Sydney for a few years and moved back to U.K. The weather there for me was definitely not a plus! Forest/bush fires regularly, floods, one summer was so wet nothing grew and they don’t import in a lot of stuff so bananas were about $10 for 5. That being said, I absolutely loved it there but it was ridiculously expensive where we lived (Northern beaches), but was very safe, 20 min ferry ride into the city, very outdoorsy lifestyle if that’s what you enjoy. The weather there does seem to be getting more extreme like everywhere else, but more dangerous. Look up the Nsw floods of last year. The plane rides back are horrific. 16 hours stuck on 1 plane to Dubai with kids was horrendous.

MilkshakesBringAllTheCoosToTheYard · 14/12/2022 22:22

I have friends who moved from Edinburgh to Sydney and they have never got over how expensive it is. I mean, Edinburgh isn't cheap, but Sydney is OMG eye-wateringly expensive. My pal says she still has to grab the edge of the till at the point they announce the total, and that's after 10 years.

I couldn't bear the weather but then I'm proper Scottish blue. I worry about the impact of global warming all over the world but I do think the climate crisis in Australia feels very real right now.

I think if you are comparing a life where you both have to work against one where there's a chance for you to take the foot off the gas for a couple of years, retrain and spend some time with the DCs... I mean, that's time you'll never regret, no? That's what would swing it for me I think.

MilkshakesBringAllTheCoosToTheYard · 14/12/2022 22:24

There are a lot of threads on here from people who's parents said they'd be delighted to help with childcare, by the way. I'm sure your DH loves his mother but how much more time will he realistically spend with her if he's working? That's going to fall on you.

ReluctantLondoners · 14/12/2022 22:29

Yanbu

Edinburgh is a great place to live and the financial aspect makes it a no brainer for me.

whatisheupto · 14/12/2022 22:33

You say 'Sydney' but where in Sydney?! You'd probably be living half an hour to an hour from a beach due to the cost of housing. And the traffic and parking is awful around the city and Eastern suburbs.
I think it's great pre kids but I wouldn't live there now. Too hot for 3 months of the year. And feels isolated. Also the cost of flights for 4 of you are so high now.... you might only be able to travel back here every 3 years.

NibbledSwitch · 14/12/2022 22:39

I lived in Scotland for 10 years and never heard Gaelic spoken! If you are English you may experience racism outside of the big cities such as Edinburgh or Glasgow. This was very much my experience in the 80's / 90's.
Things might have improved but I would be cautious... you sound like you have a very romantic vision of what life would be like.

MissedItByThisMuch · 14/12/2022 22:39

pattihews · 14/12/2022 21:18

Only spent a few days in Sydney but I found it dull — but then I couldn't live without history, theatre, good galleries and museums etc. One can only spend so much time on beaches and in bars. Former neighbours of ours moved there for his job but came back within a couple of years: they found dealing with the heat and sun with two small children difficult. The wife hated it, talked about having to spend summer months stuck indoors with the children. The cost of living was crazy: food much more expensive than here.

Edinburgh every time for me, despite the rain and the cold. And you have the rest of Scotland at hand to explore.

God not this stupid ignorant Eurocentric stuff again. It crops up on every thread about Australia. What you mean is there is no EUROPEAN history - the Australian indigenous culture is one of the oldest on earth. There are also, as PPs have pointed out many museums, art galleries, theatres, the Opera House etc. All the “culture” you could want if you took the trouble to look beyond the stereotype.

OP it’s a hard choice and no one can make it for you. I love both cities, both have their pros and cons. The weather is a matter of personal opinion - I love Sydney’s but not everyone does. The proximity to the rest of Europe is a plus for Edinburgh. They’re both beautiful, liveable cities. If I were YOU I would choose Edinburgh. But how strongly does your DH want to go “home”? Problem is there’s no real compromise available.

JassyRadlett · 14/12/2022 22:43

they lack cultural diversity,

😂

Literally 25% of Australians were born somewhere else. Half of all Australians have a parent born somewhere else. A hundred religions, 300 ethnic groups. The five most common countries of origin of overseas born Australians? England, India, China, New Zealand and the Philippines.

TakeMe2Insanity · 14/12/2022 22:44

I think Edinburgh. You’ll be more equal.

A friend moved to Australia and then through the pressure of the move from the UK her marriage broke down and realised she wanted to go back as no work, no friends etc but was unable to do as both parents had to agree or something. The net result is she is stuck there.

Butchyrestingface · 14/12/2022 22:44

Sydney. I'd rather burn than freeze. But I do have experience of hot AF climates.

I imagine the Gaelic medium primary in Leith is oversubscribed. Introduce your kids to Gaelic via Duolingo.

Izipizi · 14/12/2022 22:48

I’d pick Edinburgh. Australia is too isolated geographically for my taste and global warming isn’t doing the climate any favours.

JassyRadlett · 14/12/2022 22:49

TakeMe2Insanity · 14/12/2022 22:44

I think Edinburgh. You’ll be more equal.

A friend moved to Australia and then through the pressure of the move from the UK her marriage broke down and realised she wanted to go back as no work, no friends etc but was unable to do as both parents had to agree or something. The net result is she is stuck there.

This is the reason we're staying in the UK despite my longing for home only getting greater rather than decreasing. It feels like a big risk work and money wise - we'd be ok but it's a leap into the unknown - but more that I know how hard it is to be an immigrant, and that if we went DH would go willingly but it would be mainly for me, not for him. And it's huge pressure on a marriage and I've seen it crack some really stable couples.

But I could never, ever live in Scotland or even northern England - I love to visit but the weather would be just too much. I tolerate southern England but even then it's miserable most of the time.

And I guess that's the crux of it, OP - who's the move to Scotland for? Is there a third option where neither of you is getting to go home, but still has positives? Because I can imagine how I'd feel if my husband hadn't wanted to move to my country, but got to move us all back to his hometown instead.

FirstnameSuesecondnamePerb · 14/12/2022 22:50

My cousins were (the children of )£10 poms. Funnily enough their kids have used their right to a British passport to come and settle in the UK, citing the weather and multiculturalism as the main draws.
I think if you can afford to live in Edinburgh, that's what you should do.

VioletLemon · 14/12/2022 22:54

I get the sense being in Scotland is really important to your sense of who you are and you want your children to experience the Gaelic culture too. So, weather crap at times but lots of the biggies are there for you. Edinburgh!