Sydney or Edinburgh, to live?

[Cathy31]

This will be long. The question is AIBU to want to move to Edinburgh, not Sydney?

YANBU - move to Edinburgh
YABU - move to Sydney

I'm married with 2 DC, 3rd on the way. I'm from the Scottish Highlands, DH from Sydney but with British citizenship. He's lived in the UK his whole adult life. We live in a smallish town in midlands England. It's nice enough, we know some lovely people, DC are settled in a fab school/ nursery, and we have no mortgage. But we have no family nearby, and no old friends here.

We're here because of my job, but it's a temporary contract in a very niche sector, which requires regular moves (sometimes to different countries). Since having children, we've decided that it's best for us as a family if I change career. We're both happy for me to be a SAHM for a few years while our children are young.

So - we had to decide whether to stay where we are, because life is fine here, or to move, because life could be better elsewhere.

We've decided to move. But where should we move to? DH is arguing for Sydney.
Reasons:

• His mother is there. She has no other family, and has said she'd be glad to help out with childcare.
• Health service/ public services generally are well funded, reliable.
• DH has some wonderful friends, that he's known for 20+ years. I get on really well with these people too.
• THE WEATHER

Problems:

• Expensive, so we'd both have to work to afford a flat in a decent area. Even now, PT with two DC here, life feels busy, and sometimes overwhelming, so it feels big to have the financial burden.
• So far from everyone I know and love.
• I'd need a visa for work, which would mean we'd have to move out and live there for a while before I could start looking for work.

I'm arguing for Edinburgh. Reasons:

• My relationship with my parents isn't great, but DC love them, and my wider family is wonderful, including some lovely cousins for DC.
• I'd love DC to grow up speaking Gaelic, playing traditional Scottish music etc etc. It's hard to put the value of this into words, but it's very important, and DH recognises that it's something Sydney can't offer.
• We're able to afford a flat, the same size as our current house, in the centre of Edinburgh, on a mortgage small enough that I wouldn't need to work.
• Some of our oldest mutual friends live there. Most of our other mutual friends live in Britain, so we'd continue to see them a fair bit.

Problems:

• It's freezing. We couldn't afford a bigger place than we currently have unless we lived far from the centre, which isn't a problem in a hot climate, but in Edinburgh, it seems important to have living space...
• So far from the people DH feels closest to.

We feel quite sure that we could have a better life in either Edinburgh or Sydney than we do where we currently live. But which one would be best? Which one will our children be glad they grew up in?

This! It’s really not that bad.

Sydney. You said 'you can't spend all your time in beaches or bars' but in Edinburgh you can't spend all your time in museums or gazing wistfully at centuries old architecture under an umbrella. I doubt very much you'd be spending much of your time hopping to London or Europe.

In reality your days in Edinburgh would be mainly indoors with the heating on watching TV having battled the traffic. A weekend museum visit maybe. In Sydney they would mainly be outside having battled the traffic. Kids are encouraged to do endless sports and beach visits or swims after school are the norm. Weekend BBQs, a National park visit, surfing day. A different way of life.

Nothing is forever. Give Sydney a go for a couple of years. Move back to edi if it's not working. That's what life is all about. Shame to wonder what life could be like if you'd actually given it a go.

I'd choose Sydney. I'm biased but do actually have connections to both cities funnily enough and would happily live in Edinburgh but if it was realistic for me to move then I'd be over there in a flash

I did/ we did. We kept busy. I'm used to London, where you can go to a different theatre each night for weeks and still not see everything available. Ditto museums and galleries. We saw a show at one of the theatres, though when we were there there was nothing available at the opera house. We went to the major galleries and museums — NSW Art Museum, Contemporary Art museum, the Barracks museum and other galleries which I can't recall without doing some research. Each had some interesting exhibits. A lot of 20th century and modern work. And obviously the culture and art of Australia's indigenous peoples was something we learned a lot about while we were there and travelling around the country.

But, even so, if art and culture and history are among your main interests, I'd say Edinburgh wins out as a place to live. Just walking from the Old Town to the New Town — a mile maybe — offers you hundreds of years of visible history.

I used to live in the Midlands (whole childhood), and moved to Scotland with work in 2003. A few of your comments jumped out at me.

I'd love DC to grow up speaking Gaelic, playing traditional Scottish music etc etc. It's hard to put the value of this into words, but it's very important, and DH recognises that it's something Sydney can't offer

No idea what that school in Leith is like, but other schools will not be pushing Gaelic whatsoever. When we moved here (just outside Edinburgh), my children were aged 4 and 5. They are now 24 and 25. Neither one can speak any Gaelic, neither can any of their friends, and I can honestly say, that in the 20 years I've lived here, I don't think I've ever heard anyone speak it. Yes, they will have traditional Scottish things in schools, and the chance to play bagpipes or do Scottish dance, but the kids who took that up were few and far between!

We're able to afford a flat, the same size as our current house, in the centre of Edinburgh, on a mortgage small enough that I wouldn't need to work

But why not explore areas that are commutable, where you get much more house for your money? We now live in Dalgety Bay, which is just across the water. I can see Edinburgh and the Forth Rail Bridge from our windows. If we want a day in Edinburgh, we get the train from Inverkeithing, that takes 20 minutes right into Edinburgh Waverly. The station car park is free. We have 10,000 people in our town, it's very, very family focused, with excellent primary schools, some lovely restaurants, a Community Council that arrange Gala days and the like, a bowling green, a sports centre, and the houses are so much cheaper. We are in a 5 bed house with sea views. In Edinburgh it would be at least 5 times more expensive. We can drive to Edinburgh Airport in 15 minutes, or park up at the Halbeath Park and Ride, leave the car there (free) and hop on a Jet747 bus to the airport.

It's freezing

OMG, no it's not. It's cold now, but it's December. In the summer, we had weather so hot that the Vets were telling people not to walk their dogs, as dogs were collapsing and the pavements were burning their paws. We sat outside for a pre dinner drink most days at about 5pm, from April through September, and it was glorious.

Cant speak for Sydney at all, but have heard some Australians say that it feels isolating there? Less easy to travel from?

I lived near Edinburgh for years and loved it. There are lots of lovely places to stay that are not city centre - around the Pentland Hills for example, or towards the Firth of Forth, or into East Lothian.

Edinburgh is just THE best city in the world, and no-one will convince me otherwise!

In reality your days in Edinburgh would be mainly indoors with the heating on watching TV having battled the traffic. A weekend museum visit maybe. In Sydney they would mainly be outside having battled the traffic.

I'm not sure this is true. The people I know who had an outdoor lifestyle in the UK continued that lifestyle in Australia and vice versa. Both places will have days where it's more comfortable to be inside than out but I'm not sure that the number of days is all that different. There's countryside, outdoor space easily accessible from both cities.

I absolutely love Edinburgh but I'm sick of the weather here, I'm moving to Brisbane in June next year and I cannot wait. I've spent time there in the Winter and Summer and I don't mind the heat, there's ways to deal with it, most places and homes have A/C

@DarkMatternix it's not true, you should have seen how many people were on the beach in Edinburgh on Christmas Day last year!! BBQs and Christmas trees to!

Australia is not the place to be in a climate emergency. I think it would be a crazy move.

Interesting question. The two main factors for me would be:

1. The UK is going to shit. Heating is becoming unaffordable and the last thing I'd be wanting to do is move somewhere colder within it. Healthcare and public services are disintegrating, and there doesn't seem to be any sense of a political alternative to reverse that process. I suppose one question would be what's going to happen re Scottish independence, and how you feel about that.
2. Climate change. I've lived in Sydney, have friends there and it has so much going for it. Until recently I would have seriously considered emigrating. But most of the population seem completely in denial about the climate crisis, even as unprecedented fires ripped through the country a couple of summers ago. It's encouraging that they've finally voting in a government who at least seem to admit that the problem exists, but I'm not convinced yet. For myself I might well try it and see what happens, but no way would I want to be bringing up DC to establish their lives there and then become adults at the cutting edge of the climate apocalypse.

They’re chalk and cheese. Edinburgh is a small, historical city in colder climes. Sydney is a large city in a warmer environment.

Family and friends is a difficult one. Where-ever you are, you’ll be distant from set of family. Will dh’s mother ,min reality, be willing to help with childcare?

I get your Scottish heritage. It’s a big thing, and part of who you are.

I lived in Sydney for five years. It is a wonderful city, we weren’t sure we wanted to relocate to Sydney we liked the sound of Melbourne more, but we absolutely grew to love it.

The housing expense is the main barrier to moving to Sydney though, we were two full time working, well paid professionals and could not reconcile with the size of mortgage we would need to get over there to get a modest house in a decent area (we are mortgage free here in the SE). We think we might move back to australia one day, but have had to rule Sydney out on account of house prices.

I will comment on weather as it has been mentioned already. I like that almost any part of Australia is going to have a milder winter than in the UK. But overall, I think the UK climate is more liveable. I am rarely put off any activity in the UK due to weather, but in Australia the heat can often keep me inside and so can the much heavier rainfall.

Scotland. Apart from the weather, it seems your quality of life would be so much better

I think people are seriously underplaying how crap the weather is in Edinburgh. I lived there for years. Yes it’s drier than the west coast but it is cold most of the time and there is no guarantee of summer, you’ll get a few decent days of real sunshine but as often as not it’s cold and grey.

I would also seriously consider the sense of moving to a country where a full on assault on women is underway. From next week in Scotland, men will legally be able to become women, virtually nothing will be women only any more, and if you complain about an obvious male in your spaces you’ll be committing a hate crime.

Scotland is a bit like Canada in that if you look behind its own PR about how terribly progressive it is, you’ll find systemic, deeply embedded, raw misogyny.

it is beautiful though and Edinburgh has lots of pros. But please be aware of how bad the weather is, I think sometimes people living in Scotland are so used to the awful weather that they kid themselves on that it’s better than it is.

Sydney would be too hot for me and the cost of living issues are real and would have a huge impact on your quality of life. So Edinburgh for me. It's not freezing all year round either!

Another thing to consider is the long days of daylight in a Scottish summer. Australia was so strange to me getting dark by 6pm!

Friends ofvour moved ti Sydney and loved the 15 years there. House prices are high, si have sold up and moved 2 hours diwn the coast and loving life.
Sydney or Edinburgh, no contest imo, Sydney.

OP - I know both cities but you are not comparing like with like. Before someone could advise you properly on this, they would have to know you properly in real life.

I would think about two things: would you still be considering the move if your MIL wasn't there? And how long do you think you would be planning the move for? On the latter, if you're thinking 20 to 30 years or more, I'd be seriously looking at the predicted climate change for Sydney (all the predictions are terrifying, but I'd choose Edinburgh if I had to pick just on those grounds).

I'd stay exactly where you are. You own your own house, the kids go to a great school, you know some lovely people. Why would you move to a flat, potentially put the kids into a school they don't enjoy as much (and while you might love the idea, they really might not want to learn Gaelic), take them away from the friendships they've made and potentially have either very humid or pretty miserable weather.

I'd stay exactly where you are and with the money you save spend it on visiting family more often. Put more effort into making strong friendships with the lovely people you know where you are. I think your kids would be glad they grew up exactly where they are, the other options are all about you and DH really IMO.

All I will add is this, please make sure that you are also putting suntan lotion in your eyebrows. And bear in mind that vitamin D deficiency is a big problem in Australia. Get your vitamin D early in the morning as soon as you get up, or get up slightly earlier as vitamin D from the sun is better than taking supplements. And make sure to take Wellington boots so that if you decide to go bush walking then you have some protection from snakes getting scared and trying to bite (obviously this is just for a meander through bush, wear proper hiking boots for serious walking).

Yeah.. and Australia is so well known for its progressive views…
I would say many of the attitudes are straight from 1950.

I’m Australian and would choose Edinburgh.

Look at realestate.com.au to find properties near your MIL Sydney is so expensive! For anywhere that is a nice suburb you will need to incomes.

Like a previous pp said we spend a lot of summer indoors the UV rays are massive and the heat oppressive.

Travel - my DC don’t get to be able to explore the world without it being very very expensive where in Edinburgh there is greater opportunity for Europe travel. Where I live I fly three hours and haven’t left the state!

If you move to Australia and want to move back, unless your DH agrees, you are screwed. The Australian courts are very unlikely to allow you to move your children overseas unless your DH consents to the move once Australia is their place of residence.

That doesn’t mean you will get a work visa if you and your DH split up so you may find yourself forced out if the country by financial issues / the need to get a job without your children.