Sydney or Edinburgh, to live?

[Cathy31]

This will be long. The question is AIBU to want to move to Edinburgh, not Sydney?

YANBU - move to Edinburgh
YABU - move to Sydney

I'm married with 2 DC, 3rd on the way. I'm from the Scottish Highlands, DH from Sydney but with British citizenship. He's lived in the UK his whole adult life. We live in a smallish town in midlands England. It's nice enough, we know some lovely people, DC are settled in a fab school/ nursery, and we have no mortgage. But we have no family nearby, and no old friends here.

We're here because of my job, but it's a temporary contract in a very niche sector, which requires regular moves (sometimes to different countries). Since having children, we've decided that it's best for us as a family if I change career. We're both happy for me to be a SAHM for a few years while our children are young.

So - we had to decide whether to stay where we are, because life is fine here, or to move, because life could be better elsewhere.

We've decided to move. But where should we move to? DH is arguing for Sydney.
Reasons:

• His mother is there. She has no other family, and has said she'd be glad to help out with childcare.
• Health service/ public services generally are well funded, reliable.
• DH has some wonderful friends, that he's known for 20+ years. I get on really well with these people too.
• THE WEATHER

Problems:

• Expensive, so we'd both have to work to afford a flat in a decent area. Even now, PT with two DC here, life feels busy, and sometimes overwhelming, so it feels big to have the financial burden.
• So far from everyone I know and love.
• I'd need a visa for work, which would mean we'd have to move out and live there for a while before I could start looking for work.

I'm arguing for Edinburgh. Reasons:

• My relationship with my parents isn't great, but DC love them, and my wider family is wonderful, including some lovely cousins for DC.
• I'd love DC to grow up speaking Gaelic, playing traditional Scottish music etc etc. It's hard to put the value of this into words, but it's very important, and DH recognises that it's something Sydney can't offer.
• We're able to afford a flat, the same size as our current house, in the centre of Edinburgh, on a mortgage small enough that I wouldn't need to work.
• Some of our oldest mutual friends live there. Most of our other mutual friends live in Britain, so we'd continue to see them a fair bit.

Problems:

• It's freezing. We couldn't afford a bigger place than we currently have unless we lived far from the centre, which isn't a problem in a hot climate, but in Edinburgh, it seems important to have living space...
• So far from the people DH feels closest to.

We feel quite sure that we could have a better life in either Edinburgh or Sydney than we do where we currently live. But which one would be best? Which one will our children be glad they grew up in?

@Seeusernamehistory

So what? The cultural variety is still far more limited. That's just a fact.

What do you mean exactly by 'cultural variety' though?

• budget is around £500k if I don't work
• We'll get DC Aussie citizenship either way, @Alondra ,for exactly the excellent reasons you point out. They also have Irish citizenship, so will have lots of options.
• spiders, yeah - @Morestrangethings is right. And tbh, my time in Sydney has cured me of a slight phobia. And DH and mil are pretty fearless of them, if there ever was a huntsman in the bath 😂
• @MaryLennoxsScowl I think someone else mentioned retraining. I have some quite transferable skills and qualifications so it's fairly likely I could get an ok job, probably lower salary than I'm on now but that's ok. Though now I think about it, it might be nice to retrain... 're counselling, you're right. - DH has done some, and it's helped a bit, but...

Thanks again everyone, this has helped us so much. And I should also say, thanks for not having a go at me for coming across as absurdly privileged, and oblivious of it. I know we absolutely are, and feel very conscious and grateful of this, especially these days.

Not RTFT so sorry if it's been said, but sounds like if you live in Edinburgh, you can afford to visit Sydney to see family and friends and give your DC that side of their heritage, but if you live in Sydney, it'd be much harder to afford trips back to Scotland, and it sounds like that part of their identity is important. Feels like Edinburgh gives you more options overall whereas you'd have to be all-in with Sydney to love it and make it work.

You don't come across as someone privileged, just someone making a very tough decision, I won't tell you how many nights I couldn't sleep before we finally decided to move to Sydney We left country, family, friends and language behind and made a decision we knew it'll have a huge impact on all of us. I've never regretted it for one second. You at least have family, friends and the same language if you move to OZ.

500,000 pounds, less stamp duty, lawyers etc, will give you a nice 2 bedroom apartment but not a freestanding house in the area you want. The good news is you'll get a 30 year loan to get the place you want, and Sydney salaries are very, very high.

One more thing....

Since Covid many workplaces in Sydney have very effective set ups working from home. My DH loves to go to his Head Office because he bikes one part of his journey - from Central Station to North Sydney, and there is no way he'll give it up, he loves it. Otherwise, he could work from home 4 days a week which, depending on your speciality could open up new areas in Sydney to buy a property without getting a loan or a very small one.

"I'm not that concerned about being 'trapped ' in Oz if the marriage ends. It's v strong but even if that changes, I trust that DH and I would decide together what was best for DC, and if that meant staying in Oz I'd accept that."

Well the whole reason for considering a move to the other side of the world is because your husband felt trapped in the UK. Why do you think you would just be able to accept it? I think, since his mother will visit for a month each year as well as you being able to afford to visit her, it's a no brainer to stay here.

One's warm. One's cold. Both speak funny.

Too right. The 'Burgers, the posh wans anyway, sound practically English to me poor souls.

Bingo! My Australian stereotypes bingo card is now complete. Thanks!

I’ve changed my username for reasons which will become obvious.

Australia is beautiful and yes, the summers can be hot, but they are manageable. Our children go out all the time, but you have to sensible with sunscreen and hats. Also, get the kids used to wearing sunscreen everyday, which even in the UK, they should be doing anyway. And make sure that water is their drink of preference over juice/cordial.

I left the UK a long time ago, after the person who murdered my son was released on parole (manslaughter). He literally hounded us out of the UK and the police were unhelpful. In terms of what life is like in the UK now, I am not any help, but I can tell you something about Australia.

I don’t know about Sydney as we don’t live there, but where we live it’s quite safe.

Personally, I wouldn’t bother with a backyard pool as they can be expensive to run as the pump has to be on for a certain amount of hours each day and solar panels help, but in the summer, you want your solar panels for the aircon. You can get meters that tell you how much electricity you’re generating at any given time whilst the sun is up (even in winter, if there’s daylight, the suns there somewhere). When you’re all out at work/school, that’s the time to have the aircon on low throughout the day so that you come home to a cool house and it will remain cool even when the aircon is off. If you have shutters, also have thermal curtains as the shutters do block a lot of heat and the curtains can do the rest. Don’t have carpet but go for tiles as there’re cool underfoot. Definitely get proper window security screens so at night, when the temperature drops you can open the windows safe in the knowledge that no one can get in. Same for external doors. Don’t be surprised when you find out that people have more than one fridge freezer. Everything has to go in the fridge in summer, as otherwise bread goes off, butter melts etc. I even put my onions in the fridge. Get one of those water dispensers that offices have. Otherwise you will just fill the fridge with water. The bottles that go on them are sold at fuel stations. Be mindful that everything is reversed here as it’s the southern hemisphere, so if you want the sun in your garden all day, then look for a north/northwest facing garden but also make sure your washing line is in the shade or you’ll bleach the clothes. In summer, clothes dry within an hour. Hanging out towels and bedding in full sun, if they’re white is great. They stay extremely bright and white. Black jeans though go grey lol. In summer go shopping either first thing in the morning or after 5 as otherwise you won’t find undercover parking and if you don’t want to brand yourself with the seatbelt, you need to find shaded parking. And use the sunshields on your front and back windscreens, especially if you have a digital display as the sun will do a number on it over time.

I’m not sure if this will help @Cathy31 but it’s quite funny!

@Namechangeforreasons Suspect I remember the case. I hope you and your family are enjoying are enjoying a wonderful life down under.

I'd def go for Sydney over Edinburgh any day but hear that Sydney is one of the most expensive cities in the world, which would be a concern, especially with the CoL crisis.

We are, thank you. It’s been hard but you can make a good life here if you’re determined! I didn’t think anyone would still remember after so long, this time of year brings it back, there’s always a spare seat at the table. And one less present to buy.

Sydney is really expensive, especially the nice areas. But commuting is a pain in any of the cities because for some reason, the Aus government has never really got to grips with rail transport. The east-west (coast to coast freight) railway actually has to change trains because the tracks are different and forget about freight getting through in the floods - the trains can’t run. This was a massive problem earlier this year and again now, for Western Australia as goods can’t be shipped and even post is delayed. And really, any of the cities are expensive, but the eastern side more so as there’s more demand there.

Government jobs where you would work regionally or rurally pay a stipend but then there’s the whole living in such a small place that everyone’s up in your business and also not really seeing new faces because, well, it’s rural. Regional centres are not too bad but then the stipend for inconvenience is a lot less because there’s a lot less inconvenience. So those would be jobs such as nursing, teaching, police, and sometimes even skills like computer software engineering or marine life depending on where you want to live.

There’s no child benefit but there is a means tested benefit called Family Tax Credit, I’m not sure of the cut off but it would be well below $100K and unless you wanted a frugal life, I don’t think that’s enough with children after school fees and such. Water rates are dependent upon the gross rental value of your house, so a nice house, in a nice area, is going to have a bigger GRV than an okay house in a not really desirable area. And a not really desirable area could be one simply because the rail links are poor/nonexistent, the commute is >90 minutes outside of rush hour and just too expensive as fuel prices are through the roof right now and the schools aren’t as good as the ones in the next shire over. Electric and gas are reasonable and food is as cheap or as expensive as you want it to be.

Forget dreams of lying on the beach every weekend, the closer you are to the beach, the more expensive property is and if you don’t live near the beach, you have to drive there and then find parking. Oh, and a space to actually fit your bottom in, but that might just be a me problem lol. Upside, the sea is like a warm bath. If the sharks, jellyfish and alligators don’t get you, depending on where you live. And crocodiles can be a problem in some places. Mozzies will give you massive great blister looking type wounds until you get used to them. Spiders will run from you. Flies, urgh, today I saw 3 flies actually having a threesome and TMI, flies do missionary and doggy style. Keep fly spray outside in the al fresco or they will try to commit suicide in your drink. Always check your drink if you’re outside in the morning enjoying some vitamin D before it gets hot. Unless you’ve covered your drink up. Rats and mice are everywhere too. Get a cat. Snakes have been known to live in peoples cars and gain entrance to the house via the garage. I won’t park my car in the garage for that exact reason. Don’t ever drive over a snake in the road as they can wrap themselves around your exhaust pipe. And call a snake catcher. There’s big fines for killing snakes. Snake proof the garden.

I'm in the city centre of Edinburgh. It's a great place to be, but get your school catchments right!
It used to be the case that children who attended the Gaelic school got automatic entry - regardless of catchment area - into James Gillespie's secondary school (one of the top secondaries here). This could still be the case, so you should look into it.
That said, I'm not sure how much value there is really in speaking the language!

Oh, and 500K isn't much of a budget for here.

Edinburgh. I'd be really worried about the affect of climate change making things unbearable in Aus over time.

Live in Edinburgh. Take holidays in Sydney to visit family. That's my view.

I haven’t read an MN thread about Australia before, this one just keeps getting better (or worse). 🤣🤣🤣

Sorry, still haven’t figured out how to just quote snippets of long posts yet, will figure it out eventually, but not at. 3.47 am.

I doubt that the OP is worried, having an Australian DH, etc, but for anyone else having kittens about possibly being taken by alligators, “depending on where you live” as suggested by poster above put your mind at ease, (unless you live in Florida in the USA, which is not exactly next-door!) - there are no alligators in Australia. Crocs, yes, but the OP is considering moving to Sydney, not tropical Cairns or Darwin.

The snake anxiety combined with the “get a cat” advice … ??? Maybe, think very carefully about that, consider the native wild life and how you will keep Fluffy contained www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2020/05/15/lock-up-your-pet-cat-its-a-killing-machine.html

Personally, prefer to park car inside garage out of the weather elements are risky to black denim.

Other people have addressed other stuff, so I won’t bang on. Should he asleep!

Seriously though, OP, you mentioned MIL in Sydney, and DH having a network of friends. Talk to them about the potential issues and talk to the extended family in Edinburgh about potential issues and logistics there too. Yes, they may all have their own biases but you can filter those out. After all, you should be applying some fairly strong filters to this thread already! 😉

Do you have some specific biodiversity inside info?
where specifically in Australia do the alligators live @Namechangeforreasons ?

is a non-native American species a daily consideration for Sydney residents?

Sorry, it was quite late here and I was typing through my tears. Plus my mind kept going blank.

Australia has both salt water crocs and fresh water ones (hence misnaming the salty ones)

There are maps you can look at to see where they are but it’s not a joking matter.

Assuming when OP gets here, she won’t stay only in NSW, crocs are found north of Brisbane, all the way round to northern W.A. There’s been a couple of attacks this year that I can think of off the top of my head.

Watch out though, cows, horses, bees, snakes, emus and kangaroos have also injured/maimed/killed people. As have camels (there are wild camels in the north of Australia).

But realistically, none of these animals (except bees and snakes) are running around cities (except in the north, so cairns, Rockhampton, Darwin, etc.,) looking for humans to injure.

I would say spiders are the ones that you are least at risk from as they tend to run away. European wasps (clearly wasps don’t use satnav) are vicious as well. Jelly fish are a thing, but I think box jellyfish are only off the northern NSW coast.

Saying all this, it’s good to bear the risks in mind but millions of people have lived in Australia for hundreds of years, so statistically the chances of being maimed or killed by any of these animals are low.

Just be careful as you would be in the UK. Oh, and swimming with dolphins might be cute but dolphins are not all like Flipper and have attacked people. Again, statistically the chances are low.

Yeah, that was me having brain farts last night!

I have a cat and keep her inside and happy. As do millions of other people. Some shires have curfews (not sure how to teach a cat to tell the time and be in by a certain time but there you go) and the statistics on the life expectancy of an indoor cat vs an outdoor one are eye watering.

Some of what I have put is anecdotal (bleached washing, it’s happened to me after I left the washing in direct sunlight all day, but where I live is a lot hotter than Sydney) and all things should be borne in mind when moving. Especially if travelling to see Australia for vacations, as opposed to just statically living in and moving around one place.

If I was to move back to the UK, I would probably start a thread and would want all the information at my fingertips, good and bad. Although I feel like I already know the bad, having lived through it! Should anyone ask me if the UK, or specifically, England is a nice place to live, I would say no as my own experiences are that sentencing for crimes is too low and some people have murderous tendencies.

I don’t feel that crime is as bad over here but then I don’t know what Sydney’s crime stats are, so can’t comment. As per my other post, everything should be borne in mind, and also, the risks are minimal of any crazed animal being out to get you.

Edinburgh for sure.

Could you do a trial move to Sydney say for 2 years with the possibility of moving to Edinburgh if it’s not the right fit for your family?

I’d move to Edinburgh first. Aus is such a huge move and it feels like your heart is saying Scotland.

Edinburgh isn’t freezing and your children won’t be immersed in Scottish music and Gaelic lilting by living here.

I’m Edinburgh born and bred and people question whether I’m even Scottish at times as my accent is so mild.