Sydney or Edinburgh, to live?

[Cathy31]

This will be long. The question is AIBU to want to move to Edinburgh, not Sydney?

YANBU - move to Edinburgh
YABU - move to Sydney

I'm married with 2 DC, 3rd on the way. I'm from the Scottish Highlands, DH from Sydney but with British citizenship. He's lived in the UK his whole adult life. We live in a smallish town in midlands England. It's nice enough, we know some lovely people, DC are settled in a fab school/ nursery, and we have no mortgage. But we have no family nearby, and no old friends here.

We're here because of my job, but it's a temporary contract in a very niche sector, which requires regular moves (sometimes to different countries). Since having children, we've decided that it's best for us as a family if I change career. We're both happy for me to be a SAHM for a few years while our children are young.

So - we had to decide whether to stay where we are, because life is fine here, or to move, because life could be better elsewhere.

We've decided to move. But where should we move to? DH is arguing for Sydney.
Reasons:

• His mother is there. She has no other family, and has said she'd be glad to help out with childcare.
• Health service/ public services generally are well funded, reliable.
• DH has some wonderful friends, that he's known for 20+ years. I get on really well with these people too.
• THE WEATHER

Problems:

• Expensive, so we'd both have to work to afford a flat in a decent area. Even now, PT with two DC here, life feels busy, and sometimes overwhelming, so it feels big to have the financial burden.
• So far from everyone I know and love.
• I'd need a visa for work, which would mean we'd have to move out and live there for a while before I could start looking for work.

I'm arguing for Edinburgh. Reasons:

• My relationship with my parents isn't great, but DC love them, and my wider family is wonderful, including some lovely cousins for DC.
• I'd love DC to grow up speaking Gaelic, playing traditional Scottish music etc etc. It's hard to put the value of this into words, but it's very important, and DH recognises that it's something Sydney can't offer.
• We're able to afford a flat, the same size as our current house, in the centre of Edinburgh, on a mortgage small enough that I wouldn't need to work.
• Some of our oldest mutual friends live there. Most of our other mutual friends live in Britain, so we'd continue to see them a fair bit.

Problems:

• It's freezing. We couldn't afford a bigger place than we currently have unless we lived far from the centre, which isn't a problem in a hot climate, but in Edinburgh, it seems important to have living space...
• So far from the people DH feels closest to.

We feel quite sure that we could have a better life in either Edinburgh or Sydney than we do where we currently live. But which one would be best? Which one will our children be glad they grew up in?

If you are a Gael, are you already raising your children as bilingual ?

It would be 100% edinburgh for me, because of the risk of being stuck in Australia with no work visa and no way to support your kids if your husband leaves. Im sorry but anyone who says that 100% will not happen is too naive to do any kind of proper risk assessment.

From the OP's Post she has a family cultural background in Gaelic language and music.

Lived in Sydney and about 20 miles south of Edinburgh (and worked in Edinburgh for many years).

Sydney - depends exactly where you live. If you live anywhere near the coast it's incredibly expensive. If you live further out, you get caught up in the urban sprawl.
Australians are generally far more optimistic than Brits.
Cost of living in Australia is incredibly high for certain things - food especially, although quality of food is good it costs $$$$$$$$$. Eating out is ridiculously expensive compared to UK.
Some racist elements.
Healthcare is pretty good (different system of provision to UK
Education can either be very good or not great depending where you are and whether private school is an option. Australia has a larger % of kids privately educated than UK, I think, but then Edinburgh has far higher % of privately educated kids than much of UK.
Climate change is having huge impacts - friends in NSW have been burned out and flooded out during last 18 months (not same friends!). When it gets hot, it's very hot.

Edinburgh - lovely city. Walkable if you live close to city centre.
Weather - can be very dreich. The haar can settle for days.
Property is expensive.
Loads of new housing estates on periphery causing traffic and overcrowding issues.
Depending on your political outlook, SNP, independence, GRA.
Education not as good as it should be.
Health services not as good as they should be.

I’ve lived in Melbourne and worked in Sydney, then moved to London and now live in Edinburgh and my vote would be Edinburgh- it’s a great city, such a friendly size, beautiful countryside, beaches, lochs, mountains all within an hours drive. We were planning a city centre flat but ended up with a townhouse just a little further out - we both walk to work in 30 mins -and it really feels like the best of all worlds, so central yet spacious (twice the size of the house we sold in London for less money), urban, cosmopolitan, yet with a village feel - our area has lovely shops, cafes and bars etc, but the city centre is so close. Also great people - lots of people move here to work for the universities, hospitals and financial services from all over the world so it’s a great mix, and locals b welcoming

For me, living centrally with no commute, reduced costs which meant flexibility over work, and access to Scotland and the rest of Europe win over the weather in Sydney. Didn’t have family in either place though so didn’t have to factor that in….

it is blooming freezing though today, and it was dark by 3:30pm pretty much… a month in Oz every year would help!

@NibbledSwitch English isn't a race? Also things have moved on hugely round the world since the 80's/90's. You do realise that was 40 years ago?

Based on work/life balance I'd vote Edinburgh.

Sydney weather isn't perfect either, I have a friend who lives there who deals with a LOT of heavy flooding

No experience of Edinburgh, so no advice. One day.. 🛫
But, not to take anyone’s genuine and serious concerns lightly, I have to admit to feeling just a little bit amused after reading thread after thread after thread about how miserable the UK weather is, how high the cost of living is, how freezing cold the schools and students and teachers are, how it’s becoming untenable to adequately heat homes - but here’s a rush of advice to stay away from Sydney heat 🙂

Mildly curious about the “vvv dangerous” assertion too. 🤔

Best wishes for whatever you and husband decide and for the decision-making process.

Somebody upthread mentioned not being able to revert back to your UK pension. You wouldn’t want to! My mother gets twice as much as a UK pensioner for their basic state pension. Plus the healthcare and hospitals are well resourced, clean and not falling apart. But those will be more important in the future, perhaps not now.

To me, it would depend on what makes you feel ‘alive’. If it’s city breaks and European culture, then Edinburgh. If it’s beaches and cafe culture, then Australia. Many middle to low paid jobs pay more in Australia eg nursing and teaching but Sydney is astronomical for housing.

Could you move somewhere halfway eg Asia or the US or even the Middle East, squirrel enough cash away to make house buying in Sydney more realistic or to set yourselves up really well in Scotland in a couple of years? It really depends what both your careers are too.

I’m from the highlands too and now live in Edinburgh (actually quite close to the gaelic school) so vote Edinburgh. It’s such a fab city ☺️

Edinburgh. I live in a city centre flat and it’s a great balance of having all the city centre stuff - things to do, culture, food etc - while also being able to easily drive out to the beach or the hills for the day and further afield for a weekend.
Also access to elsewhere in Europe. As others have said - Australia is far from everything - from Edinburgh you can get to so many European countries so easily.
As for the weather, it’s cold in the winter but it’s not actually that bad really (compare average temps and rainfall to where you live now to get an idea - people always say Edinburgh is v rainy but it’s not that different to London say and less rainy than Brighton on the South Coast). I’d take a bit of rain and cold over the excessive heat any day, and think about the climate in 10 or 20 years time in Sydney….

'Somebody upthread mentioned not being able to revert back to your UK pension. You wouldn’t want to! My mother gets twice as much as a UK pensioner for their basic state pension.'

This depends on what you paid where. DH will be short on his state pension because he doesn't have enough years in the UK and can't port years worked in Australia. It's definitely something to consider.

Edinburgh. (Fly out for a holiday every few years on the money you save. Property prices are ludicrous in Sydney.) Bonus, better skin in older age.

Sydney is overcrowded, congested, and unbelievably expensive to live in, as well as uncomfortably hot six months of the year. You will spend your entire life in traffic, and trying to find a place to park, and ditto when you visit a beach on the weekend.

Whatever the decision you need to take his mother and childcare out the equation. She may change her mind. She may not be able to cope. Her health may change. It would be a bonus, sure, but don't rely on it - make sure you factor in the full costs of childcare.

I'd vote edinburgh. Lots of people I know moved and did a 2-5 year stint in oz but no one stayed. The feeling of being OP far from the rest of the world, the slightly different culture, the prices, the suncream every time you pop out, they now appreciate being able to visit paris or rome or a million other places very easily. I think youd be really homesick for the highlands in a long term move

Additional years can be paid into the UK state pension.

I’m from Brisbane but have lived in Sydney and Edinburgh. I’d choose Edinburgh. Sydney is MUCH more expensive and harder to get around. Yes the weather is better, but it’s quite a bit seedier than you’d expect too. Sydney is absolutely ginormous and realistically, you’d need cars to get around. They’re super-expensive to buy, tax, insure and run. There are also a lot of toll roads to deal with. Public transport is on par with London, safety-wise, but you would have to ensure that where you choose to live is nearby a public transport hub. Infrastructure is crap in most Aussie cities. Meanwhile, medical care is a bit better here than there, but will admit that it’s on the decline.

Sydney is delightful, but fiercely hot in the summer.

Re affording Sydney

my dn single parent lives in Sydney (Petersham 3 bed semi) seems to manage fine, works from home doesn’t actually say how much she earns but here in uk was on 23k
pays for dd school, as everyone in Auss does

Currently sitting in Sydney, in summer where the weather is a delightful 20 degrees with brilliant blue sunny skies. I love Sydney and, having lived as expats in multiple cities all over the world, am very happy here. But Edinburgh is a wonderful place and sounds an easier choice for your family.

I see the usual bollocks being spouted here about Australia from people who have probably never set foot in it. Saying there is no culture here really shows your ignorance, as does saying it isn't multicultural! My office has people from all over, it's more multi-cultural than when I worked in London!

As for the choice between Edinburgh and Sydney, it really is apples and oranges. You could have a good life in either city, it really depends on your personal preferences. I love Edinburgh a lot, but I would hate the weather. I moved from Ireland to Perth (the Oz one) to get away from the bloody rain, so it's a deal breaker for me, but obviously isn't for you. Also, I love visiting Sydney, but wouldn't live there (or Melbourne) as housing is too damn expensive. I do quibble with people saying food is expensive here, I find it much on a par with the UK, especially once you are on Aussie wages. Also, we pay (in Perth) a lot less on power bills (approx $30 a week) as we have solar, so that's a huge saving. Comparing expenses between countries isn't easy as there are so many variables, but in my experience, the higher Australian wages give you a very high standard of life if you can live somewhere with cheaper housing (that is, not Sydney or Melbourne).

This really is a choice only you can make though, everyone has different preferences. But don't listen to the people who tell you Australia is shit because their aunty's next-door neighbour visited once 20 years ago and didn't like it!

Scotland is nearer so you could move there and see how you like it. If you do, great. If it doesn’t work out, then you can still move to Sydney in the future. It’s probably more of an upheaval to do it the other way around.

Sydney is a massively big move, have you ever been there? If you are changing careers anyway it would be a good time to go and try it, but only if you feel any pull/desire to. I lived in Sydney for 30 years and it's a wonderful lifestyle, especially with young kids, but it is as expensive as London so you need to look realistically what/where you can afford. We left and came back to London when our kids were older because as others have said: 1. it's actually too hot and humid about 5 months of the year, which is fine if you're on holiday by a pool but not so great for commuting to work/shopping/housework. 2. it's a fairly small town and quite boring if you're not into beach/surfing, and there's nowhere else to go for a weekend/holiday that's any different, just another beach. BUT I would say give it a go if you want the adventure and it may be for you 🙂

I know a lot of couples with one ex pat and for me you have to go with whoever is most comfortable being abroad. Generally that means you stay wherever you met.

I love Sydney. I also love Edinburgh. Sorry not helpful, but neither are a poor choice.

I voted Sydney but I'm biased. I live in Aus in another state and visit Sydney multiple times a year. My husband was also born in the UK and his parents moved to Sydney when he was a baby. The weather is fantastic, the beaches on the east coast in Aus are just beautiful. You could also consider a suburb outside of Sydney, further up the coast. Still in the state but slightly cheaper to live in

Education in Australia is free, unless you go to an independent school...🤔