To think why have so many kids if you can’t afford their presents?

[yuletidey]

Before I start I just want to say I have absolutely nothing against large families, I also understand people will have times in their lives where they struggle.

I recently volunteered for a local to charity, they donate toys to children in need all around the country. I have volunteered for around 6 years around Christmas time to get toys packed. Yesterday I was helping pack boxes as they are really overwhelmed with the demand.

Recently I think the charity has changed their criteria as before anyone could get in touch and they would receive toys, I think the founder was a bit naive there but hey. Now people need to be referred by a school, social worker, support worker etc as a lot of people were taking advantage.

Anyway a woman turned up to the charity yesterday, asking for toys. The young girl working there said they will be giving them out all next week, she mentioned they had changed the criteria. The woman was saying she has ten kids and she was relying on them for toys, she was saying how can I get toys, she has kids from 16 to 1. They will now have to go without and no one bothered to tell her the criteria changed. The young girl apologised and said all updates were on their social media but they can’t update everyone individually. The woman lost her temper saying they have ruined her kids Christmas, it’s the girls fault, she’s ruined 10 kids Christmas.

This went on for a bit until I someone else stepped in but I was just shocked. I appreciate people need help and the pressure of Christmas can’t be nice but this woman has used the toys since they started, in that time she’s had a few children. I realise it’s a touchy subject but I felt so sorry for the young girl as she was really upset at letting children down

I fully agree with you, OP. My husband and I can afford just 2 DC - if we had any more, we wouldn’t have the time nor money to physically, emotionally and financially support another child. I know several families with lots of children and I often wonder how each child can have 1-2-1 time with a parent, have money for any activities they would like to do etc. IMO, if you cannot support more children than you have, why have more? Of course it is people’s choice to have as many as they want, but I couldn’t have more children than I could support myself!

Another one who agrees with you.

I have an aquaintance with 5 kids who was moaning yesterday that she had no money and still needed to buy lots of gifts for her DC's.

She then went on to say how "lucky" I was not being in the same boat as I only have one DC.

No bloody "luck" involved.

It was a concious decision and a better life choice for me.

Pregnant with my fifth baby, and I totally agree with you. Whilst I appreciate I am in a privileged situation, I work, dh works and we do fine financially, combined with a belief that 'stuff' isn't everything/no child or person has an entitlement to an extravagant/designer/own bedroom each etc lifestyle, I absolutely believe in being financially/emotionally/physically responsible and accountable for any and all children you have.

Completely agree. I also feel the same when people with loads of kids are complaining they can't get a big enough Social housing property. If you don't have space, you don't have heaps of kids. It's your responsibility.

And I know two families with 6 children each. But they can afford and have space for them.

Yanbu but doesn’t seem to be the way now.

Seems more like, ‘who will help me with my kids, someone has to!!!’

I guess sometimes something becomes "your normal", something that's the way of the world and a matter of routine rather something to be especially grateful for. So she's got into an annual routine of "it's December, time to pop to [wherever it is] for the kids' Christmas presents". Then when it changed, she was angry because something that she'd got used to as a normal thing was suddenly "taken" from her and she's got less than two weeks to find and pay for ten Christmas presents. We probably all have things we take for granted that we'd be upset if we unexpectedly couldn't have, and hadn't made alternative provision for.

Having said that, obviously she shouldn't have behaved like that towards someone who's doing a nice thing for kids at Christmas, and probably shouldn't factor the charity presents in as a regular part of her annual budgeting.

Disadvantage is complex and usually intergenerational.

You can see the cause and effect because you've had a reasonable education, good role models, you're mentally and cognitively well. Volunteer or work in this space long enough and you'll see that's not the case for an alarming number of people.

Perfectly reasonable that people should consider how many kids they can afford before having more. We had to consider cost of childcare etc before deciding on a 2nd, with a suitable gap so not paying for 2 at once. This woman has kept on having kids knowing she’s relying on a charity for Christmas presents. That’s totally irresponsible and the fact she’s blamed someone else for ruining her kids Christmas shows she has zero self reflection. No doubt she will keep on having more. So unfair on the poor kids of course

I’d withhold judgment as it’s pointless and unproductive. it’s not like she can suck all 10 children back up. The kids are here, the woman’s circumstances are unknown and everyone needs a little kindness.

I agree she shouldn’t have spoken to the girl in such an awful way but sounds like she was having a bad day or panic. I hope the girl has been debriefed and supported.

Yeah if I was relying on charity for kids presents I wouldn't keep having more kids...

Completely agree. I have two as that's what we can afford financially and physically. My friend has 6 but she and her husband can afford them, they have a nanny and a cleaner.

I really don’t see how anyone could afford ten children, even when times are good. Even if you had lots of money, the effort required to purchase 10 gifts is huge (and that’s just one present each). Also that’s a birthday per month, st just not viable to live a life with the same levels of comfort as smaller families imo. Houses, cars in the UK are not set up for such large families.

Totally agree.

I mean, with the way that you’ve presented the situation, no one will say you’re being unreasonable. It’s not a god given right for charities to give children toys as Christmas presents. Many families go without even.

However you don’t know the women’s situation to judge, although 10 children is a large number. She could have been a victim of abuse where the sex wasn’t consensual or abortion was prohibited so these children weren’t planned. I do appreciate that’s an extreme example, but I work with the public and see people on the worst days of their life on a daily basis. There’s so many reasons why people present as unreasonable but they still deserve compassion.

As a PP mentioned, the employer should be supporting the staff member with support about the situation she dealt with (ie counselling, regular breaks etc) and they should look into their health and safety procedures. Is there not security officers or managers that could have stepped in and asked this visitor to stop shooting at the staff? Why was it allowed to continue? Can there be policy updates sent out again as the implementation may not have been smooth? Can they prevent people from just walking in - appointment only basis where eligibility is checked first? Can they signpost people elsewhere?

@yuletidey

ten kids is simply egotistical
terrible for climate
the mother and father ruined things

YANBU

Well I was going to say that situations change and they might have been able to afford them before but can’t now but if they were literally counting on it every single year then… well… maybe they should have had a backup plan. There is the thrift store and plenty of other options. We have had to rely on a food charity during the pandemic because of unexpected situations but we didn’t like it and actively searched for other options once we bounced back. Charities are supposed to be a last resort not plan A. How incredibly entitled! They’ve been ruining other families christmas’s for years! Charities aren’t unlimited resources. How incredibly selfish and thoughtless. This is just karma at this point. They ruined their own christmas. They can figure something out I’m sure.

You’re oversimplifying.

Often people with many children and little to no money or living on benefits have been raised that way themselves. It’s their norm. A lack of knowledge on what life has to offer and a lack of aspiration to do more with their lives.

It’s sad and another generation of children will be raised to have the same lack of knowledge and aspirations. Until one breaks the cycle.

Oh look the goady posts of Christmas are beginning. None of your concern OP, try be a little less judgmental 👍

This.

Having more than two kids is just selling future generations into slavery....the only reason we escaped from our chains in this country was the Black Death. It's staggeringly selfish.

Wait until you find out about the retirement crisis… 😃

Ten kids is potentially a blended family? I can't say I ever thought about numbers of Christmas presents when deciding how many kids to have. I'd rather give them less gifts than remove one sibling from their life, as that is it's own gift. But I hear what you're saying and if you can't afford a simple Christmas for the kids, chances are you are scraping by in other areas, like food, too.