To think why have so many kids if you can’t afford their presents?

[yuletidey]

Before I start I just want to say I have absolutely nothing against large families, I also understand people will have times in their lives where they struggle.

I recently volunteered for a local to charity, they donate toys to children in need all around the country. I have volunteered for around 6 years around Christmas time to get toys packed. Yesterday I was helping pack boxes as they are really overwhelmed with the demand.

Recently I think the charity has changed their criteria as before anyone could get in touch and they would receive toys, I think the founder was a bit naive there but hey. Now people need to be referred by a school, social worker, support worker etc as a lot of people were taking advantage.

Anyway a woman turned up to the charity yesterday, asking for toys. The young girl working there said they will be giving them out all next week, she mentioned they had changed the criteria. The woman was saying she has ten kids and she was relying on them for toys, she was saying how can I get toys, she has kids from 16 to 1. They will now have to go without and no one bothered to tell her the criteria changed. The young girl apologised and said all updates were on their social media but they can’t update everyone individually. The woman lost her temper saying they have ruined her kids Christmas, it’s the girls fault, she’s ruined 10 kids Christmas.

This went on for a bit until I someone else stepped in but I was just shocked. I appreciate people need help and the pressure of Christmas can’t be nice but this woman has used the toys since they started, in that time she’s had a few children. I realise it’s a touchy subject but I felt so sorry for the young girl as she was really upset at letting children down

Hundred percent agree I have four want a fifth maybe sixth! However we are fortunate to have room and money both have good jobs
there’s no way I’d have had as many had they had to go without anything!
I think it’s irresponsible of people to do that
howevver is circumstances change eg a parent becomes I’ll and can’t work or loses job in redundancy etc then I think that’s a bit different and unfair
I know someone this has happened to recently but luckily they have family to rely upon and fall back on!

As a mum of 3 I think it’s incredibly irresponsible to have 10 kids when you can’t even afford Christmas present for 1 child (or don’t prioritise them as your too used to getting gifts year after year). Though as another poster quite rightly pointed out there maybe a victim of abuse but equally she may just be irresponsible and relying on others to pay for her kids.

I have to save all year for my 3 kids to have nice Christmas gifts. We stopped at 3 kids though could have stretched to 4 kids financially but it would have been a stress mentally, physically, financially and emotionally which is why we stopped.

Sadly I also didn’t donate to mission Christmas any gifts this year as I have seen to much abuse of it in the last couple of years. For example a family who can afford a yearly holiday abroad for 7 of them while on benefits getting bags of gifts despite having bought there kids hundreds of pounds worth of gifts each anyway. I donated to the SSPCA lots of cat food and to a local lovely family whose child is very sick and who need help.

Siblings aren’t a gift. Some siblings have absolutely zero in common with one another and if you’re really bad at parenting then that just exasperates the problem. I know too many people who are traumatized because their parents literally just ignored outright sibling abuse and just said “oh that’s what siblings do. They go about their day trying to destroy each other.” Quality not quantity.

This.

I’ve taught many disadvantaged children over the years. Their lives are often (not always) complicated and messy. Sometimes when working with a family, you want to bang your head against the wall with frustration at the inertia and lack of ability to help themselves to better a situation. But dig a little deeper and you realise that the parents of disadvantaged children rarely had charmed childhoods and quality educations themselves. You’d be amazed at how childhood trauma and poverty effects the developing brain and body. Often, they are doing the best they can.

Not everyone has the same skills and understanding of the world that you have been privileged enough to have had instilled in you.

Some people are entitled. I see it all the time in my public sector job. Eg. Mrs Smith can't come to meetingas they don't 'get paid'until the end of the week. Cue taxu being provided for Mrs Smith at great expense to the tax payer.
All children should have a present to open at Christmas but parents should take responsibility for the children theyve created too.

Has anyone actually seen these 10 kids, or does she just rock up each year with a sack, a sob story and an increasing tally of kids?

Luckily, my kids have enriched each others lives. I think they've got more out of it than some gift that keeps them amused for a few weeks to years. Relationships are more important than stuff, unless your sibling unit is dysfunctional, I guess.

I doubt the situation OP described actually happened, but if it did, or for any situations like it, the above is true.

Nobody will ever have seen them.
But it won't be the "mother" inventing them.
Why namechange @yuletidey ?

Most of the responses here demonstrate that educated, working women (a lot of MNers) are able to make considered lifestyle choices. Including how many children to have. What man to marry, as well. A career that can provide basic comforts.

Not everyone has the intelligence. Nor the opportunities. Or may be part of a different culture / family set-up... It’s hard for the children. But a lot of these women (the men often don’t feature) are in their various situations for any number of reasons.

It's incredibly inappropriate for you to post about this (if indeed it actually happened). What is the point in volunteering? So you can judge and sneer at those who are actually in need ? From the outset it seems you think a lot of people using this charity are actually unworthy or scammers. I would really consider stopping volunteering if I were you. You are not a suitable person to be doing this.

You've likely broken the terms of your volunteering agreement in posting this here and may even have committed a data breach for which the charity could be fined- given this person is identifiable.

True this.

Yup it’s on her not the charity. We can’t afford to have more than one, not unless things drastically change in the next two years, which is unlikely.

OP this would have been more believable if you had said 5 kids rather than 10.

This is just one manifestation of people expecting society to take responsibility for their poor choices in life. As a PP said though, poor choice and taking responsibility for your own actions is easy to see when you've not been raised in an environment of generations of social disadvantage. I don't have the answer to breaking the cycle of allowing life to "happen to you" as opposed to being able to control it, but this is definitely part of that situation. Still appallingly inconsiderate of the woman to shout at the messenger though.

They may not all be her DC , could be step DC and other family members that she buys for.
Op can you ask her to look around at other places like charity shop or Freecycle? That's a very blaming mentality she has.
She just needs to be more resourceful.

I got all DDS Xmas presents once from Freecycle! She was a toddler and didn't know and loved her toy's.

Your kids don't have their own bedrooms?

I don’t think she’s firing out kids because she knows she can get Christmas gifts from a charity 🙄

These situations are complex and no it isn’t ideal. Why is no one asking where the dad(s) are and why they’re not providing? Why is it just the woman being judged here?

We don’t know her background and circumstances and it seems crass to judge based on a limited third party’s observations.

This is really mean spirited OP. You don't know the personal circumstances of this woman or how she came to have ten kids or if the ten are actually hers and not a mixture of hers and other children she's looking after for family/friends etc.

Being poor is humiliating, asking for help takes courage. Lucky old you if you've never known sleep for dinner.

@MarrymeKeanu

One reason those people are trapped is because they may have special education need's, Sen and it could be complicated or simple but school is not equipped to teach children who are anything but the norm. Eg a child may struggle with phonics, that's tough.
A ridiculous amount of children leave school unable to read and write.
Imagine how the cycle could be broken if teachers learned about Sen in the pgce and had training on it on going.
Senco were also at a high level and properly trained.
By the grace of God go us but if we were one of the families my own DD could not read properly and was one of the lowest achievers in the class.
Thankfully we had the means to investigate ourselves because the school had not even put her on the Sen register.
Everything had to come from us for everything.
The intervention group's didn't work because they still pushed phonics.
Everything was being impacted including her self esteem.

I got her reading by dropping phonics.

Anyway that's one reason people get caught in a cycle. Proper help and teaching strategies would help

Contraception is free yet some people can’t be bothered to even get that.

Having so many children can be a red flag for an abusive/controlling relationship.

Categorically agree. I don’t buy that the woman is a victim, she should surely see that the first 9 were living like battery hens before having a 10th? Those poor poor children.

I'm sorry op but I can't completely agree with you.

We could afford to have 2 children but are struggling having 3.

My second pregnancy was twins. Obviously it couldn't be predicted, there aren't any other twins in our families so a complete surprise.

When we had one dc they had the full Christmas budget. Now it is split 3 ways and it doesn't stretch far.