To think why have so many kids if you can’t afford their presents?

[yuletidey]

Before I start I just want to say I have absolutely nothing against large families, I also understand people will have times in their lives where they struggle.

I recently volunteered for a local to charity, they donate toys to children in need all around the country. I have volunteered for around 6 years around Christmas time to get toys packed. Yesterday I was helping pack boxes as they are really overwhelmed with the demand.

Recently I think the charity has changed their criteria as before anyone could get in touch and they would receive toys, I think the founder was a bit naive there but hey. Now people need to be referred by a school, social worker, support worker etc as a lot of people were taking advantage.

Anyway a woman turned up to the charity yesterday, asking for toys. The young girl working there said they will be giving them out all next week, she mentioned they had changed the criteria. The woman was saying she has ten kids and she was relying on them for toys, she was saying how can I get toys, she has kids from 16 to 1. They will now have to go without and no one bothered to tell her the criteria changed. The young girl apologised and said all updates were on their social media but they can’t update everyone individually. The woman lost her temper saying they have ruined her kids Christmas, it’s the girls fault, she’s ruined 10 kids Christmas.

This went on for a bit until I someone else stepped in but I was just shocked. I appreciate people need help and the pressure of Christmas can’t be nice but this woman has used the toys since they started, in that time she’s had a few children. I realise it’s a touchy subject but I felt so sorry for the young girl as she was really upset at letting children down

Mybabydolls - what a telling user name. Not individual people with agency and needs of their own, things to dress up and play dollies with 🙄

I don’t even know if the woman is on benefits to be honest. But really and truly my first thought was
This lady has relied on a service to provide non essentials to ensure her kids have a good Christmas every year. It’s not a given. She’s continuously had more children even though according to her she can’t provide for them.

I have apologised as I’ve thought about my judgment and privilege to be able to see this, I also don’t know her circumstances

You can see the cause and effect because you've had a reasonable education, good role models, you're mentally and cognitively well. Volunteer or work in this space long enough and you'll see that's not the case for an alarming number of people.

this.

Plus loads of people can't afford one or two dc but still have them so I'm not going to judge the very unusual case of having 10.

It really doesn't.

Completely agree with you op - was saying this only yesterday (bbc had a cost of living story and the woman had 5 kids ... I have 2 because I could afford to feed and house them.

If you can afford both financially and have the emotional capacity for a larger family then it's up to you but most cannot, 2 or 3 kids is reasonable, more is tricky

I wouldn’t be in the place I was now if it was for the support of benefits.

But you are judging this woman?

@Hadjab - sure, but working during the weekend doesn’t stop you having your kids during the week! They simply couldn’t be bothered.

If you can afford both financially and have the emotional capacity for a larger family then it's up to you but most cannot, 2 or 3 kids is reasonable, more is tricky

What do you mean reasonable? Most people cannot afford 2-3 dc if you look whether they put more into the "system" then they take out.

Really great post

When I met my sil, I felt so bad for her as she had multiple children in a one bedroom flat and the council wouldn’t rehouse them. Awful.

Then I slowly worked out that she had moved in there with one baby and filled it with children from different dads over the next 5 years. I can’t even get my head around it.

This is a really excellent post.

This

I have only one. But life took over at some point and even affording a single one was a struggle.

Even if you have the money, you never know what is around the corner.

I believe however that we women should be informed what a game hormones play on you, that desperate urge and relentless “need” to have more children can really blind women’s judgement and press for more kids whatever the circumstances.

I had a horrendous broodiness for another… few more for years but forcing myself to think with my head, even when my circumstances improved and had a wonderful new partner, kept me at one. Mind you, it took 10 years for the broodiness to go away but I am so grateful I managed to ignore it.

I do agree with you. I personally know a couple who were on benefits before they had any children, are still on benefits and have three. Although unless you do know them personally you have no idea if they have fallen on hard times since having them, so it's a delicate subject!

Sadly I do completely believe this is true. A relative of mine volunteers at the food bank and the community fridge and some of the stories she has to tell are shocking. The rudeness, entitlement and selfishness displayed by some users of the services is eye watering.

Often people with many children and little to no money or living on benefits have been raised that way themselves. It’s their norm. A lack of knowledge on what life has to offer and a lack of aspiration to do more with their lives

The town I work in is always mentioned in reports as the most deprived in the North West. However families of 6 children plus with involvement with children's social care are not uncommon. My heart always sinks when I hear 'mum is pregnant again' in meetings.
I've been in the job a while and the children I was supporting 10 years ago are now having children in the same situation. As we say at work, "and so the cycle continues"
I'm not sure what can be done about things. We have intervention support. We have family support and also young people support workers. We run programmes directly aimed at families to break the cycle of dysfunctional living. ( not necessarily referring to the number of children issue, but to chaotic lifestyles)but I can hardly recall seeing much change and the lifestyle often repeats to the next generation.

How many women have birthed 10 children in the UK? I've worked with quite a few women who have.
I've also worked ( also working) with women who have come to the UK and birthed some children here and their older ones elsewhere. Some of the travelling families we support have large number of children. For them, it seems cultural. I cant comment on that demographic as it is not my direct work but my coleagues. I'm not making a comment one way or another, just saying 10 children is not unusual in some groups.

If everyone just had 1-2 kids or even just 2 kids from now on, in 30-40 years there would be societal collapse with not enough food and way way less healthcare and public services etc than there are now. Really hoping that doesn’t happen.

I'm not making a comment one way or another, just saying 10 children is not unusual in some groups.

But statistically it is unusual in the UK

Don’t feel bad. There’s a lot of scumbags out there who would think nothing of pretending they have 10 kids so they get 10 presents for free to flog down the pub!

I personally don't think it's anyone else's business. For all anyone knows she might have been able to afford 10 children but then fell on unexpected hard times, or in the case of someone I know, took in 4 children when one of her relatives went to prison. Clearly the woman was in distress and to me, that's all that matters. I hope she manages to get sorted.

If everyone just had 1-2 kids or even just 2 kids from now on, in 30-40 years there would be societal collapse with not enough food and way way less healthcare and public services etc than there are now. Really hoping that doesn’t happen.

This doesn't make sense @PurpleWisteria1 healthcare & public services are already starting to collapse because the impact of the changing demographic is coming through & we don't have enough "workers" to support it physically or economically

@notacooldad maybe that would to be part of your role if it isn’t already as a social worker to educate the daughters of these people that there’s more to life than popping out babies. Can you not take proactive steps to intervene at an early date?
There’s a girl my daughter went to school with who is 18, and the twat of a boyfriend who is abusive good for nothing lazy piece of shit. His Nan puts pressure on this poor girl every time she visit to have a baby with him so that she sees it before she dies it’s all that kind of shit that needs stamping out.
In my opinion that’s actual emotional abuse of somebody. But the girls need decent jobs to go to that they can support themselves and have some sort of quality of life in order for plan a, the baby to look less attractive.

Honestly I think having more than 2 kids is such a risk; if a relationship breaks down, a parent dies, income change, health changes etc etc it's all well and good having 4 kids in a good income, 2 parent home, but life is going to get very difficult very fast if something happens. I appreciate you can't live your life like disaster is around the corner, but relationship breakdown in the very least is statistically plausible. I do struggle with the "and I've got X kids" narrative for sympathy as if they poof came out of nowhere, I very purposefully kept my family small, I thought this stuff through. Appreciate not all children are planned but when you get to 4+ there are decisions being made.

Purple The Ponzi scheme of each generationshaving more and more children just can’t go on though. There is finite space and resources.

@TheaBrandt people aren't having more & more dc though in much of the west.
The birth rate in the UK is well below replacement level. If you think that isn't going to cause it's own issue though you need to read a bit more!