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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think why have so many kids if you can’t afford their presents?

479 replies

yuletidey · 13/12/2022 04:50

Before I start I just want to say I have absolutely nothing against large families, I also understand people will have times in their lives where they struggle.

I recently volunteered for a local to charity, they donate toys to children in need all around the country. I have volunteered for around 6 years around Christmas time to get toys packed. Yesterday I was helping pack boxes as they are really overwhelmed with the demand.

Recently I think the charity has changed their criteria as before anyone could get in touch and they would receive toys, I think the founder was a bit naive there but hey. Now people need to be referred by a school, social worker, support worker etc as a lot of people were taking advantage.

Anyway a woman turned up to the charity yesterday, asking for toys. The young girl working there said they will be giving them out all next week, she mentioned they had changed the criteria. The woman was saying she has ten kids and she was relying on them for toys, she was saying how can I get toys, she has kids from 16 to 1. They will now have to go without and no one bothered to tell her the criteria changed. The young girl apologised and said all updates were on their social media but they can’t update everyone individually. The woman lost her temper saying they have ruined her kids Christmas, it’s the girls fault, she’s ruined 10 kids Christmas.

This went on for a bit until I someone else stepped in but I was just shocked. I appreciate people need help and the pressure of Christmas can’t be nice but this woman has used the toys since they started, in that time she’s had a few children. I realise it’s a touchy subject but I felt so sorry for the young girl as she was really upset at letting children down

OP posts:
Guitarbar · 13/12/2022 07:08

Reugny · 13/12/2022 07:02

They share.

Having you own bedroom isn't a right.

I know plenty of kids, especially under 8, who share bedrooms.

Some of my friends have spare bedrooms - plural - and their kids have chosen to share with their sibling. My friends actually set the children up in separate rooms and then had to move beds/buy bunk beds because they would find one of the kids asleep in their sibling's room.

Some of the same sex siblings but not all want their own room around puberty.

Show quote history

Do you plan to increase your income by the time they're teens then?

Bestcatmum · 13/12/2022 07:08

Nobody needs 10 bloody kids. I had one because I could only afford one. I'd have liked two or three and a lovely husband but life doesn't always work out the way you want. I never managed to find a nice man. My DS didn't go without and we had a nice home and a good life. If I'd had more kids we would have lived in poverty.

Reugny · 13/12/2022 07:09

BeanieTeen · 13/12/2022 07:03

Often people with many children and little to no money or living on benefits have been raised that way themselves. It’s their norm. A lack of knowledge on what life has to offer and a lack of aspiration to do more with their lives.

I work in a school and this rings so true. Third or fourth generation of children growing up with parents living mostly off benefits or very little money - parents lack of aspiration for their children, never mind themselves, is very evident. As you say it’s their norm.

If they don't see it and aren't told they can achieve it, if the child has the temperament, then they won't do better.

This is why public servants including teachers need better pay.

Sockwomble · 13/12/2022 07:09

There about 300 families in the UK with 10 children ( over 3 million with 2 children). Frothing about this is pointless.

LaLuz7 · 13/12/2022 07:11

With 10 kids the presents are the least of your worries.

It's absolutely impossible to have dedicated quality one-on-one time with each. Impossible to pay attention to each of their individual struggles and needs. Impossible to facilitate extracurriculars and hobbies to their preference. Impossible to keep track and help with 10 sets of homework. Just not enough hours in the day.

What usually happens in such big families is that childcare get delegated to the oldest ones, who end up being parentified and have their childhood stolen from them. It's not optimal for anyone. Kids end up competing for resources, for attention and for the parent's time. No one wins. And that is way more damaging than not having enough presents on Christmas day. Kid's don't need presents and luxuries, they need time and care and attention.

I find it utterly utterly selfish and narcissistic to have that many kids.

Reugny · 13/12/2022 07:11

Guitarbar · 13/12/2022 07:08

Do you plan to increase your income by the time they're teens then?

Show quote history

Huh?

I have one child.

My friends whose children share bedrooms are in the top 1-5% earners in this country.

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 13/12/2022 07:12

I agree with you OP. No one should have more kids then they can afford. Sad thing is plenty of people will defend a persons right to have children, even if they can't afford it and blame it all on the government. No one has a right to have children, if you can't afford them, don't have them until you can.

Believeitornot · 13/12/2022 07:12

Is this one of those goady first time poster threads.

LaLuz7 · 13/12/2022 07:12

Sockwomble · 13/12/2022 07:09

There about 300 families in the UK with 10 children ( over 3 million with 2 children). Frothing about this is pointless.

That's 3000 or more kids whose needs are not being met. Buy hey, who cares...

pompomdaisy · 13/12/2022 07:12

I stopped at two because that's all we could afford. Unfortunately there are people who are able to procreate who can't think and plan; mental illness, abuse, lack of educational opportunities. It's complex isn't it? It's been the case for thousands of years though. Except 150 years ago death and disease would have bumped the children off!

ComfortablyDazed · 13/12/2022 07:13

YANBU, OP.

Just like you, I’m literally tripping over Mums of 10+ kids giving out to toy banks, demanding they supply everything their kids need by way of Christmas presents.

This happens so often, I’m also moved to come onto MN to bitch and moan about it.

Or, it has literally never happened to me…..

Lampzade · 13/12/2022 07:14

Agree Op.
It actually upsets me when people have children when they can’t afford them. They are doing a disservice to those children.

btw- My comment does not refer to those who find themselves in a difficult financial situation after having kids.

Bard6817 · 13/12/2022 07:15

MamaFirst · 13/12/2022 05:07

Pregnant with my fifth baby, and I totally agree with you. Whilst I appreciate I am in a privileged situation, I work, dh works and we do fine financially, combined with a belief that 'stuff' isn't everything/no child or person has an entitlement to an extravagant/designer/own bedroom each etc lifestyle, I absolutely believe in being financially/emotionally/physically responsible and accountable for any and all children you have.

Beautifull answer. I wasn’t lucky enough to have my own children, but in my imaginary utopian world, this is how i would have done it.

I know all families are different, but yours sounds perfect to me.

Frazzled2207 · 13/12/2022 07:15

agree with you
sure some families fall on hard times and in that case deserve help but generally speaking you should only have the kids you can afford to deal with

however If the woman has been brought up to believe that charities/the state will help her out financially then it’s unsurprising that she still believes this

lifeinthehills · 13/12/2022 07:16

What's this thing with kids needing their own rooms? They don't. That's a privilege. I know lots of people who never had their own room into their teens and 20s. For the record, all my kids have had their own rooms because that's what I wanted for them, but it wasn't a necessity.

Mygirlruby · 13/12/2022 07:16

TheOnlyBeeInYourBonnet · 13/12/2022 05:16

Disadvantage is complex and usually intergenerational.

You can see the cause and effect because you've had a reasonable education, good role models, you're mentally and cognitively well. Volunteer or work in this space long enough and you'll see that's not the case for an alarming number of people.

This. Although I totally understand why it's so easy to think like OP. On the face of it, it's a selfish thing to do but who knows what's going on

cococoolo · 13/12/2022 07:17

hattie43 · 13/12/2022 06:52

In years gone by people would have
' made' gifts for their kids whether they had money or not .
A shame the woman relied on others and couldn't be creative herself to give her kids a fun Christmas Day .

I have made my dc gifts before.

When my dtwins were little, I made them blankets which they loved. They had little ribbon tags around the edges that they found fascinating.
Also made teddies of their favorite characters.

Dd this year has asked if I can crochet her a granny square scarf. It's half finished and I hope she will like it.

I tend to use scraps of wool or materials I have lying around so the gifts usually don't cost me any extra.

onefedupmum · 13/12/2022 07:17

I agree with you. Unless of course they had a surprise multiple birth (can't help twins and triplets).

I have an acquaintance who choose to have 3 kids but goes on and on about how she can't afford them, how she's always skint but why have 3 kids then? She doesn't get any money for the third child and knew this when she tried to get pregnant. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Obviously it's different if you planned your kids with money and then something drastically bad happened.

ComfortablyDazed · 13/12/2022 07:19

LaLuz7 · 13/12/2022 07:11

With 10 kids the presents are the least of your worries.

It's absolutely impossible to have dedicated quality one-on-one time with each. Impossible to pay attention to each of their individual struggles and needs. Impossible to facilitate extracurriculars and hobbies to their preference. Impossible to keep track and help with 10 sets of homework. Just not enough hours in the day.

What usually happens in such big families is that childcare get delegated to the oldest ones, who end up being parentified and have their childhood stolen from them. It's not optimal for anyone. Kids end up competing for resources, for attention and for the parent's time. No one wins. And that is way more damaging than not having enough presents on Christmas day. Kid's don't need presents and luxuries, they need time and care and attention.

I find it utterly utterly selfish and narcissistic to have that many kids.

Well, it’s certainly not for me.

Check out mybabydolls on Instagram - she’s a Mum of 11, the youngest is a month old, she’s back to her pre-pregnancy weight, they’re all immaculately turned out, and appear to be happy and well cared for.

So I suspect ‘absolutely impossible’ is not entirely accurate.

Hadjab · 13/12/2022 07:21

Mellymoon · 13/12/2022 06:51

I don’t know why I think this but instinct is she was probably looking to sell the toys for drugs and probably didn’t even have as many kids.

I don’t know why you’d think that either - hold on, I believe it’s called making an assumption based what you perceive to be this person’s socioeconomic standing…

shrunkenhead · 13/12/2022 07:21

We have one as can only afford one. Sometimes, in recent years, I've wondered if we even can afford one! We did our maths prior to conception and figured we could afford her. I appreciate people's circumstances change but I don't understand the need for multiple children. People need to think long term. How is that mum going to be able to put 10 children through university etc etc

Believeitornot · 13/12/2022 07:21

Lampzade · 13/12/2022 07:14

Agree Op.
It actually upsets me when people have children when they can’t afford them. They are doing a disservice to those children.

btw- My comment does not refer to those who find themselves in a difficult financial situation after having kids.

How do you determine that? Sift them out after judgement?

Seriously, this thread reads like the 2022 version of a Daily Mail story about a mum (always a fucking mum isn’t it) on benefits cheating the system to get a ten bedroom mansion in Westminster. All to distract from the shit show of a government that has ensured 1/3 children are in poverty.

Original poster
yuletidey · 13/12/2022 07:21

I’ve not read all the posts and I am sorry for judging her straight away. My immediate thought was cheeky. But you’re very right. I don’t know her circumstances and I also agree it’s not as simple as she just keeps having kids. Like another poster said disadvantage is very complex.

i didn’t mean to upset anyone and this did genuinely happen. I was just thinking of the girl who had been running around all day, trying to pick presents each child would like and she was upset at the thought of these kids going without. Again I didn’t mean to offend anyone

OP posts:
nobird · 13/12/2022 07:22

YABU and massively judgmental.

Stunningscreamer · 13/12/2022 07:22

ZED55JAX0 · 13/12/2022 05:50

Hundred percent agree I have four want a fifth maybe sixth! However we are fortunate to have room and money both have good jobs
there’s no way I’d have had as many had they had to go without anything!
I think it’s irresponsible of people to do that
howevver is circumstances change eg a parent becomes I’ll and can’t work or loses job in redundancy etc then I think that’s a bit different and unfair
I know someone this has happened to recently but luckily they have family to rely upon and fall back on!

But surely you should think about circumstances potentially changing when you decide the size of your family? Four children is still a big family. No-one needs five or six children and it seems irresponsible, especially given the environment and the demands on resources. Even if you have good jobs that's a big pull on services like the NHS and education, unless they're all privately educated and you only use private healthcare, and that's without the pressure on the environment. If your circumstances change and you have six children then it's not just bad luck, you could have anticipated this to some degree.

I know on MN for some weird reason big families are a blessing, even though it can end badly, and relationships can break up, which means with our stupid CMS system families often end up relying on the state. If you have two children then that's really sad but perfectly reasonable. If you have six then that pisses me off.