Told I was 'phobic' for not using pronouns!

[NewStartIn50s]

Asked for my preferred pronouns and I said ' I don't use them', pushed on what I use to refer to myself and I said I don't use on emails or when I introduce myself or at all. Apparently, if I use them I am showing inclusivity to others and being accepting. I'm not quite a dinosaur yet but why are these things forced on us. I don't have a beard (yet) and I think you can tell what I am/but does it really matter if you can't.

So AIBU

YANBU - don't have to use pronouns if you don't want to

YABU - you should state what your preferred pronouns are

What pronouns do I use to refer to myself?! I use “I” and “me”, but that’s not much bloody use to them is it?!

It’s awful to force someone who is trans but not ready to come out to either lie or to out themselves by announcing their pronouns.

But truthfully, I don’t really care how you refer to me as when you’re not addressing me directly, provided you’re polite while I’m in earshot.

It doesn’t help trans people. It doesn’t help people who don’t believe in the ideology. It only helps those individuals who want a special identity and their feckless allies cheer along on their behalf.

Blaire White talks about this - she says that she didn’t go to all that effort of transitioning, spending all that money and time to be asked to state her pronouns, and actually finds it quite offensive to be asked.

Whilst I think all of the trans ideology is a load of crock, I would still be considerate and refer to a trans woman as she/her when talking about her. But it isn’t those trying to ‘pass’ that are insisting on this shit. It’s ever ‘they/them’ ‘zi/zir’ ‘fae/faeself’, and those bearded men that want to play make pretend whilst declaring ‘she/her’.

Yanbu op.

I am waiting for them to impose this on us at work. I will be taking the ‘feeling uncomfortable’ route. Because actually I do and I’m not sure why - whether it’s the virtue signalling or whether I don’t like referring to myself as ‘she/her’ or a bit of both.

My db has a friend who is trans (F-M) but it’s a secret. Typical female name, everyone treats this person as female and nobody knows that he identifies as male (no transition - living as female publicly and male privately).

No disrespect to your db's friend but this really puzzles me.

If the friend has a woman's name, presents in a conventional manner, is known as female at work etc, in what sense are they "living as a man"? How would one do that privately and in secret?

This sort of bollocks is just what'll keep happening whilst the hierarchy of human needs is fully met.

And we have had the email of ‘strongly encouraged’. I happily found out that day my male is GC, and that his wife and daughters talk about it a lot at home. I have ignored it and don’t expect more to come of it for now.

Whenever I do get an email now from ‘Emily (she/her)’ or ‘John (he/him)’, whose sex I know (further helped by their useful Microsoft profiles pictures), I generally just think they are bit dim.

If ever asked to do this, I'd be tempted to just put I/me.

Male manager*.

I don’t own a male.

YANBU. It’s compelled speech. Tell them to naff off next time.

Surely if they are trying to be inclusive to everyone, you have the right not to specify pronouns? This all seems to work one way!

Can you state your pronouns to be "Do-Re-Mi"?

When questioned, start singing:

Doe. A deer. A female deer.
Ray. A drop of golden sun.
Me. A name I call myself..........

Wrong of me maybe but I instantly think less of the intelligence of anyone with pronouns in their bios/email signatures. I know many who’ve said the same.

I mean, you can instantly tell they are the type to knee jerk react to anything asked of them if they think it may make them look kind/good, and not think too deeply past that even when faced with evidence of problems with the approach.

The kind who never really question going with the flow and so ignore any uncomfortable facts that don’t fit the narrative they currently follow, either through laziness (‘I don’t need to worry about this, someone higher up has already decided so it must be fine’s or through dogmatic ignorance (‘That fact/opinion makes me have to think about my beliefs, I feel vulnerable to being swayed. I’ll react with anger to chase it away or stick my fingers in my ears’).

For those who say 'it's not compulsory - no one is making you', I imagine the staff at the Scottish Government who are told that they will be 'encouraged' and 'educated' to add pronouns despite the majority stating that they did not wish to add them in a poll feel rather restricted in declining to add pronouns, for fear of their employment prospects -

www.holyrood.com/news/view,majority-of-scottish-government-civil-servants-say-theyll-never-add-pronouns-to-their-email-signatures

If my workplace ever asks, my answer will be no. I don't agree with compelled speech.

This is exactly how I feel.

I have no issue with people's gender preferences, but I am failing to see why it is of utmost importance to be brought up in every situation, even when it isn't relevant.
By the inclusivity argument, then surely I should sign off my emails with Vegan / Agnostic / Pro-Choice etc etc

@HipTightOnions, I don’t understand that either. I tend to think the idea of ‘living as’ a man/woman is nonsense, but the only way I can make any sense of it at all is to assume people are referring to stereotypes, so ‘living as a woman’ would involve using a woman’s name and wearing clothes designed for or more typically associated with women. Maybe showing an interest in things commonly assumed to be popular with women, such as dancing, shopping, gossiping, drinking cocktails etc. (Obviously goes without saying that a great many women here on MN and elsewhere are not interested in such things).

So what does that look like behind closed doors? Just doing those things when you’re at home so the only person to witness it is yourself and whoever you live with? Meaningless, IMO.

People who put their pronouns in their signatures (social media, email etc) are generally the same people who put filters over their facebook photo to show their support for the NHS/Red Cross/[insert political/social movement here]

ie. the type to jump on the bandwagon for show, but rarely contributing to the actual cause

Surely Iding as a male behind closed doors is just taking your bra off, climbing into sweats and avoiding the housework?

😂😂😂

Absolutely. So almost all women, I imagine 😂

Whereas my husband puts the baby to bed and does the washing up before he sits down.
Good thing he doesn't Id as female at work though because money is tight and we could do without the pay cut lol!

Compelled speech and TWAW ideology (which really does exist) leads to this:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4175263--No-Trans-Olympian-List-of-women-and-girls-disadvantaged-in-sport-resource-thread

and

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread

Being open minded is great, being so open minded brains fall out not so much.

Women and children are being harmed by the ideology of which preferred pronouns are the thin end of the wedge. Women are excluded by the ideology and told that it's important for them to "be kind and inclusive", all the while being compelled, threatened with job loss, being attacked for speaking out about reasonable concerns and ostracised or even being arrested on spurious claims.

If you use the pretty universally accepted fact that "men can't become women" to assert your views when called out, but what you've also been doing is denigrating and shaming trans people for existing though, that would be bigoted, no?

It’s true that men can’t become women, it’s not shaming or denigrating transwomen to acknowledge this. Be Kind is one thing, but having to reject reality discomfits me.

Acknowledging biological reality isn’t a segue into denigrating and shaming transpeople. Not parroting TWAW isn’t political, it’s ok not to believe something that isn’t true.

I find it very immature when the “bigot” and “far right” insults come out when people refuse to capitulate to gender woo. Adults are allowed to have a range of beliefs, we’re not 10 and having to pick some sort of side in the playground. Transwomen are not women, they are transwomen. This isn’t political, it’s not literal violence not to believe it and it’s not kind to pretend that people can change sex.

Just make up random noises and expect them to be used in the right context without further explanation as you don’t owe anyone the emotional energy of educating them

I say ‘I’m a woman.’ I am not interested in playing their silly games with pronouns because doing so would confirm that I accept that we can just pick and choose our sex (because he / she has always referred to immutable biological sex, no matter how much ideologists try to replace it with the woolly concept of ‘gender’). It would also confirm that I believe that ‘gender’ is not just a godawful set of regressive sexist stereotypes and that if we don’t fit them it means our gendered souls were somehow ‘allocated’ by a midwife to the wrong bodies.

‘Transphobic’ used to mean hatred or fear of trans people. Now it apparently means asking any sort of question at all or showing signs of scepticism of any part of gender ideology.

You are not transphobic. You are a woman and a logical, sensible person who can clearly see reality. So can all of the people who have no problems at all in looking at you and seeing you are a she / her, which we have done successfully as human beings for thousands of years until a group of people decided we could pick our sexes after birth.

What to say when asked which pronouns you use