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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Told I was 'phobic' for not using pronouns!

684 replies

NewStartIn50s · 08/12/2022 17:48

Asked for my preferred pronouns and I said ' I don't use them', pushed on what I use to refer to myself and I said I don't use on emails or when I introduce myself or at all. Apparently, if I use them I am showing inclusivity to others and being accepting. I'm not quite a dinosaur yet but why are these things forced on us. I don't have a beard (yet) and I think you can tell what I am/but does it really matter if you can't.

So AIBU

YANBU - don't have to use pronouns if you don't want to

YABU - you should state what your preferred pronouns are

OP posts:
SinnerBoy · 10/12/2022 12:26

CountZacular · Yesterday 18:14

I’m so glad a TRA popped up on this thread. I think it’s a really helpful demonstration of the utmost intolerance and bigotry they have towards any view that doesn’t align to their own.

It's why the TEZ side insisted on "No Debate!" because they knew perfectly well that they had no valid position. Look at Maya Forstater's case, her employers told them not to get into debates with her "because she knows what she's talking about." If that isn't a clear indication that they knew that they were spouting complete bullshit, I don't know what is.

SinnerBoy · 10/12/2022 12:27

Happylittlechicken · Today 05:22

I do love the way the GI activists pop on to scold, use hyperbolic language and throw round accusations whilst making no actual discernible points.

Hyper-bollocks, more like.

howmanybicycles · 10/12/2022 13:09

Gender has nothing to do with biology
So why do men with gender identities think their chosen gender expression should somehow entitle them to access female only spaces and services, because those things are based on biology not feelings or self image?

Yes, and why do those people who actually have a gender identity and don't think it 'matches' their biological sex, spend so much time and money trying to mock up an external similarity between their body and that of the opposite sex?

Kucingsparkles · 10/12/2022 13:13

Hyper-bollocks, more like.

LOL!

JoyBeorge · 10/12/2022 13:23

I've started receiving official emails with these pronouns attached from the NHS. I think it's utterly ridiculous. I don't care when I'm receiving something I don't need to reply to anyway.

SinnerBoy · 10/12/2022 14:00

Glad to raise a smile, Kuc!

Happylittlechicken · 10/12/2022 14:16

SinnerBoy · 10/12/2022 12:27

Happylittlechicken · Today 05:22

I do love the way the GI activists pop on to scold, use hyperbolic language and throw round accusations whilst making no actual discernible points.

Hyper-bollocks, more like.

Stealing that!! 😂😂😂

SinnerBoy · 10/12/2022 14:25

Enjoy!

Emotionalsupportviper · 10/12/2022 15:33

JoyfulGirl · 08/12/2022 23:24

It used to be common to put your title in parentheses after your name in correspondence, like “yours sincerely, J Smith (Mrs)”. I kind of see the pronouns thing as similar. Putting trans issues aside, it can be quite handy when someone has a name that’s gender-neutral, or perhaps from a different language or something. I do understand why people are uncomfortable declaring their pronouns though, and definitely don’t think anyone should feel pressured to do it.

Perhaps we can just assume that if someone chooses NOT to add pronouns^then they are happy for everybody to:

a) use the ones appropriate to their biological sex

b) guess, but not worry about getting them wrong

c) realise that if people do get them wrong, the person is unlikely to burst into tears and storm out of the room, shrieking "YOU ARE LITERALLY TRYING TO STOP ME FROM EXISTING"

d) respect the fact that for whatever reason, they don't want pronouns in their bio

Emotionalsupportviper · 10/12/2022 15:35

1983Louise · 08/12/2022 23:25

Could you say you identify as a Hobnob biscuit, anything seems to go these days 😀

"My pronouns are crunch/crumb/dunk"

Metabigot · 10/12/2022 15:50

Emotionalsupportviper · 10/12/2022 15:33

Perhaps we can just assume that if someone chooses NOT to add pronouns^then they are happy for everybody to:

a) use the ones appropriate to their biological sex

b) guess, but not worry about getting them wrong

c) realise that if people do get them wrong, the person is unlikely to burst into tears and storm out of the room, shrieking "YOU ARE LITERALLY TRYING TO STOP ME FROM EXISTING"

d) respect the fact that for whatever reason, they don't want pronouns in their bio

Show quote history

Before all this bollocks I started a new job where a senior manager was called Lynn.

Typical girls name so I assumed a woman but it was a man, an actual man who had been called it by his parents as it used to be a boys name/ is an uncommon boys name I think.

A simple oh sorry didn't realise sorted the situation out. No literal violence, tears or tantrums.

It's really not that much of a deal if someone you don't know thinks you're the opposite gender, unless people just choose to make a fuss to further an ideology. Which I rather think they do.

Emotionalsupportviper · 10/12/2022 15:51

NotBadConsidering · 09/12/2022 01:22

I’m through with being nice, kind or playing dumb. I won’t do any of those things anymore. I won’t play games, make a joke out of it, pretend to look bewildered, or any of those things suggested. I will explicitly state that 3rd person pronouns are sex-based, always have been and always will be, and only a small number of people believe they are gender-based. I am not one of those people.

That small number of people do not get to decide for the rest of us that things have changed. Neither I nor the rest of the world consents to such a change being imposed upon us. It’s not part of the natural evolution of language because that happens to make communication easier - which is how pronouns came into our language in the first place. Talking about a male as “she” does not make communication easier. It’s a belief system I don’t subscribe to and I will not be compelled to follow. My own belief is protected in law in the UK. My belief should be equally respected.

If pressed why I will explain that the same ideology of having gender-based pronouns on a badge instead of continuing to use sex-based pronouns naturally is the same ideology that insists male rapists are referred to as “she”. Because they are referred to as “she” these men get placed in women’s prisons where they sexually assault women.

The same ideology means a teenage girl who might be confused about her sexuality and/or on the autism spectrum, and/or be a victim of abuse who decides she is a boy needs to be referred to as “he”. Because she is referred to as “he”, a pathway of irreversible harm is commenced with puberty blockers and wrong sex hormones, with double mastectomies being done on girls as young as 12. This all started because of the compelled use of the pronoun “he” for those girls.

No more games. No more bewilderment. No more silliness. The damage from this is real. Stand up and say no.

Excellent post.

CalmDownKaren · 10/12/2022 16:00

I think all this pronoun crap is ridiculous. If you are a man but want me to call you a female then essentially you are asking me to go along with your fantasy and lie. You are also expecting everyone everywhere to humour you and also pretend that you are female.

Emotionalsupportviper · 10/12/2022 16:01

JazbayGrapes · 09/12/2022 11:23

My pronouns are "I/me", somebody else would refer to me as "you"

I'd like to see it in German - haven't they got about 36 pronouns depending upon many other factors? 😁

On a serious note - I remembered reading this when I saw your post

www.newsweek.com/france-bans-gender-neutral-language-schools-citing-harm-learning-1590092

Emotionalsupportviper · 10/12/2022 16:15

PickyTea · 09/12/2022 14:13

Oh the faux confusion, always funny to see on MN

I mean those who refuse to use pronouns, typically tend to be a certain type of person (the same type who uses the term woke… shudder)

why should the intolerant and bigoted be included?

Show quote history

What's intolerant or bigoted about not wanting men in women's too;ets and changing rooms?

Especially when allowing men in increases the risk of sexual assault, and also means that many women (not just Muslim women, Orthodox Jewish women and Rastafarian women are also forbidden from sharing such spaces with men other than their husband) are forced out of them?

Emotionalsupportviper · 10/12/2022 16:15

*toilets

Emotionalsupportviper · 10/12/2022 16:20

Metabigot · 10/12/2022 15:50

Before all this bollocks I started a new job where a senior manager was called Lynn.

Typical girls name so I assumed a woman but it was a man, an actual man who had been called it by his parents as it used to be a boys name/ is an uncommon boys name I think.

A simple oh sorry didn't realise sorted the situation out. No literal violence, tears or tantrums.

It's really not that much of a deal if someone you don't know thinks you're the opposite gender, unless people just choose to make a fuss to further an ideology. Which I rather think they do.

Show quote history

Amazing what can be sorted out quickly and easily when both parties act like grown-ups, isn't it?

PeaceJoySleep · 10/12/2022 16:21

yeh, I'm not confused or faux confused. I'm just certain that nobody with a penis should be in the women's toilets.

Wiccan · 10/12/2022 16:34

PeaceJoySleep · 10/12/2022 16:21

yeh, I'm not confused or faux confused. I'm just certain that nobody with a penis should be in the women's toilets.

Agree and anyone who thinks otherwise absolutely does not give a fuck about women full stop !

Mumjugglingkidsandteaching · 10/12/2022 16:53

The world has gone mad. YANBU. Somebody roll me back to the 80s and fucking leave me there.

Metabigot · 10/12/2022 17:57

Emotionalsupportviper · 10/12/2022 16:20

Amazing what can be sorted out quickly and easily when both parties act like grown-ups, isn't it?

Show quote history

Footnote: he wasn't into genderwoo.

Incidentally as a child with a short haircut someone once thought I was a boy. Moment of embarrassment for both. But probably more for me because I hated that haircut my mother enforced. I didn't really think any more of it.

Fairislefandango · 10/12/2022 18:19

Oh the faux confusion, always funny to see on MN

There's nothing confused about recognising that male people are men and female people are women. It's a fact known by the vast majority of human beings, including many who know it but don't feel safe to say so.

Metabigot · 10/12/2022 19:04

If I ever get forced to state pronouns I intend to say: you may use whatever you feel appropriate.

Would that be transphobic? Even if I say I'm agender or something which puts me in the special club.

Technically I kind of am, in a GC don't believe in gender way.

Delphinium20 · 10/12/2022 19:14

I wish someone would ask my preferred adjectives: svelte/stylish/brilliant

Metabigot · 10/12/2022 19:29

I was asked my pronouns once by an acquaintance and I said

Monday and Wednesday he/him

Tuesday and Thursday she/ her

Friday depends what clothes are clean in the wardrobe

I thought she'd get the joke/ point that clothes do not maketh the sex but she very seriously asked to write it down so she'd remember

I'm not sure if I offended her by saying of course not!