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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Told I was 'phobic' for not using pronouns!

684 replies

NewStartIn50s · 08/12/2022 17:48

Asked for my preferred pronouns and I said ' I don't use them', pushed on what I use to refer to myself and I said I don't use on emails or when I introduce myself or at all. Apparently, if I use them I am showing inclusivity to others and being accepting. I'm not quite a dinosaur yet but why are these things forced on us. I don't have a beard (yet) and I think you can tell what I am/but does it really matter if you can't.

So AIBU

YANBU - don't have to use pronouns if you don't want to

YABU - you should state what your preferred pronouns are

OP posts:
DoorKeyPad · 08/12/2022 20:50

I’d tell them it is private and them forcing you is forcing you to our yourself when you are not ready and that’s harassment

electricdreaming · 08/12/2022 20:51

RichardMarxisinnocent · 08/12/2022 20:18

I can’t believe there’s some people on here saying they never use pronouns. You’ve never referred to someone as she/her/he/him/they?
If course I use those pronouns to refer to other people. But if someone asks me what pronouns I use, they're not asking me what I use about others, they're asking about what I use for myself. And the only pronouns I use about myself are I and me, I never use she/her/he/him/they/them about myself (and I don't care which of them people use about me)

That’s fair enough. I don’t think “what pronouns do you use” is the best wording. Maybe the question should be “what pronouns would you prefer” and then those who have a preference can say so, and those who don’t can say they don’t mind and are happy to be referred to by any pronouns.

Happyher · 08/12/2022 20:54

Just say ‘isn’t it obvious?’

Cailleachian · 08/12/2022 20:54

This is both direct sex discrimination and gender assignment discrimination.

Would they demand to know which race people identified as at the start of every meeting? Or their religion? Why do they require that you identify with a gender, make it public and have it enforced in every meeting.

I would say see a union, but....ya know.

Dreamwhisper · 08/12/2022 20:56

nolongersurprised · 08/12/2022 20:48

If you use the pretty universally accepted fact that "men can't become women" to assert your views when called out, but what you've also been doing is denigrating and shaming trans people for existing though, that would be bigoted, no?

It’s true that men can’t become women, it’s not shaming or denigrating transwomen to acknowledge this. Be Kind is one thing, but having to reject reality discomfits me.

Acknowledging biological reality isn’t a segue into denigrating and shaming transpeople. Not parroting TWAW isn’t political, it’s ok not to believe something that isn’t true.

I find it very immature when the “bigot” and “far right” insults come out when people refuse to capitulate to gender woo. Adults are allowed to have a range of beliefs, we’re not 10 and having to pick some sort of side in the playground. Transwomen are not women, they are transwomen. This isn’t political, it’s not literal violence not to believe it and it’s not kind to pretend that people can change sex.

You've completely missed the point of my post, please read it again.

SammyScrounge · 08/12/2022 20:56

Shoxfordian · 08/12/2022 17:53

How hard would it be to just say she/her? 🙄

I hate looking absurd

thepenismightier · 08/12/2022 20:57

orzoisorange · 08/12/2022 18:05

Because it gives unwarranted endorsement to a load of bollocks?

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Ha! Very well said.

nolongersurprised · 08/12/2022 20:58

Dreamwhisper · 08/12/2022 20:56

You've completely missed the point of my post, please read it again.

Show quote history

It wasn’t written very clearly, all I could really work out was that “also” seemed to be doing some very heavy lifting.

Undaunted77 · 08/12/2022 20:58

smile enigmatically and say I’m not ready to out myself

Wiccan · 08/12/2022 21:02

I will not be forced into a belief system at work or any other part of my life . If HR think that they can call me phobic for not stating my pronouns then I would fight them on it with the utmost vigour.

IcakethereforeIam · 08/12/2022 21:04

Look quizzical, say 'pronounce!?' and repeat your name verrry slowly.

Seriously, they can feck off. I'm not your 'cis', I didn't 'chestfeed' my kids, I'm a woman not a menstruation, a cervix-haver, a gestator, or any of that shit. I'm a woman, an adult human female, and I won't give an inch to that dehumanising rubbish.

HatThatWearsYou · 08/12/2022 21:06

Dreamwhisper · 08/12/2022 20:56

You've completely missed the point of my post, please read it again.

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Would you mind putting it in simpler terms please, I took it in the same way as the PP and agree with them.

BlueMongoose · 08/12/2022 21:06

If ever there was a fuss about nothing that focuses minds away from the real issues, this pronoun stuff is one. If people only treated everyone the same no matter what group they belonged to, i.e., not prejudging them or stereotying them, and treating everyone with respect, what a nice world it would be to live in. And if people don't do all that, it doesn't matter what pronouns they use.

MoirasSaggyBundles · 08/12/2022 21:07

Ytterbium · 08/12/2022 20:19

No I haven’t. I’ve seen it mentioned a lot here lately and my husband also references it a lot. So I will now!

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Cool, it is a great read, I hope you enjoy it. Orwell knew human nature, and the oppressed will become the oppressors given half a chance.

You are not wrong in that orgs like BLM really push TR ideology (and have allegedly misappropriated funds raised to help raise up black people from poverty to pay for trans surgery). But they are a sideshow. All the power structures behind trans rights activism, be it political, educational, medical, media or the sex industry are dominated by the same self interested group, and this is white men with money and class power.

Wiccan · 08/12/2022 21:08

IcakethereforeIam · 08/12/2022 21:04

Look quizzical, say 'pronounce!?' and repeat your name verrry slowly.

Seriously, they can feck off. I'm not your 'cis', I didn't 'chestfeed' my kids, I'm a woman not a menstruation, a cervix-haver, a gestator, or any of that shit. I'm a woman, an adult human female, and I won't give an inch to that dehumanising rubbish.

Damned right this needs to be said more often .

ehb102 · 08/12/2022 21:10

Pronouns belong to the person using them. Not the person they are being used about.

Fairislefandango · 08/12/2022 21:12

I can’t believe there’s some people on here saying they never use pronouns. You’ve never referred to someone as she/her/he/him/they?

I can't believe that anyone on this thread wouldn't understand that in the context of this discussion 'using pronouns' refers to declaring the 3rd person pronouns by which you would prefer to be referred to, according to your 'gender identity'.

whynotwhatknot · 08/12/2022 21:14

ffs what is this coming to you have to say which one or youre transphobic

ive had enough

electricdreaming · 08/12/2022 21:16

Fairislefandango · 08/12/2022 21:12

I can’t believe there’s some people on here saying they never use pronouns. You’ve never referred to someone as she/her/he/him/they?

I can't believe that anyone on this thread wouldn't understand that in the context of this discussion 'using pronouns' refers to declaring the 3rd person pronouns by which you would prefer to be referred to, according to your 'gender identity'.

That’s not what using pronouns is though. That’s declaring what pronouns you’d rather people use.

flyingbuttress43 · 08/12/2022 21:17

Let's indulge in a flight of fantasy: put all these gender identity trans women in planes and drop them in Afghanistan. See how quickly they would stop pretending to be something they're not.

It took women centuries to get the most basic of rights. I'm buggered if I will give an inch to this latest fashionable batshittery. Phrenology, tripanning, lobotomy.... all enjoyed their moment in the sun before being dismissed as the unscientific nonsense it was. Gender identity will follow, in time, but my God, what damage will it do before reality hits. "Be kind" = "lie".

Orwell's "newspeak" is with us, just 30 years later than he predicted.

waterlego · 08/12/2022 21:19

electricdreaming · 08/12/2022 21:16

That’s not what using pronouns is though. That’s declaring what pronouns you’d rather people use.

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Fairly obvious what people mean though, isn’t it?

electricdreaming · 08/12/2022 21:19

flyingbuttress43 · 08/12/2022 21:17

Let's indulge in a flight of fantasy: put all these gender identity trans women in planes and drop them in Afghanistan. See how quickly they would stop pretending to be something they're not.

It took women centuries to get the most basic of rights. I'm buggered if I will give an inch to this latest fashionable batshittery. Phrenology, tripanning, lobotomy.... all enjoyed their moment in the sun before being dismissed as the unscientific nonsense it was. Gender identity will follow, in time, but my God, what damage will it do before reality hits. "Be kind" = "lie".

Orwell's "newspeak" is with us, just 30 years later than he predicted.

Christ, ‘let’s imagine a scenario in which trans peoples’ lives are at risk’

Wiccan · 08/12/2022 21:22

electricdreaming · 08/12/2022 21:19

Christ, ‘let’s imagine a scenario in which trans peoples’ lives are at risk’

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I think that scenario would be simply give them the mermaids contact details !

MissConductUS · 08/12/2022 21:23

If pressed to do it, I would put down bip/boop/bop and leave it at that.

Riu · 08/12/2022 21:25

Shoxfordian · 08/12/2022 17:53

How hard would it be to just say she/her? 🙄

About as hard as wearing a badge supporting something you aren’t interested in, or don’t feel is necessary. Not hard at all, but not something people should have foisted onto them.