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‘No Trans Olympian’ List of women and girls disadvantaged in sport - resource thread

129 replies

NotBadConsidering · 24/02/2021 10:08

I’m absolutely sick of the whole “no trans Olympian” argument, which completely fails to acknowledge the hundreds of women and girls already disadvantaged at non-Olympic levels. This post is a more detailed, more researched variation of a post I’ve made before and is not extensive.

Terri Miller and Andraya Yearwood


When these two athletes were allowed to compete in Connecticut state high school athletics, every girl who participated had their place lowered by one or two in every competition these in which athletes took part.

These are the results from 2018:

www.runnerspace.com/eprofile.php?event_id=458&do=news&news_id=534718

Note the names of all the girls whose places were lowered, not just those whose places were lowered from the winners’ podium. Note also the names Shanea Calhoun and Shayla Wallace, the record holders for the 100m and 200m respectively.

Here are the 2019 results:

www.runnerspace.com/eprofile.php?event_id=458&do=news&news_id=578633

A few things to note here. Note the new record holder who has erased those names from above...
Also note that by good fortune, Chelsea Mitchell won the final because Terri Miller false-started. Some justice there.

A special mention to Selina Soule whose name appears and has been brave enough to speak out against the injustice:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=3DsejTFZQ7k

This list of affected girls is not comprehensive. It doesn’t include qualifying meets, lower school events, indoor events etc.

CeCe Telfer

Telfer competed in the women’s 400m hurdles in the Division II (two) NCAA Championships in 2019.

Here are the results from 2018 where Telfer doesn’t appear:

fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/track_outdoor_champs_records/2018/D2Women.pdf

Note the name Minna Sveard who finished 8th with a time of 1.02.54. Now look at the results from 2019:

fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/track_outdoor_champs_records/2019/D2Women.pdf

All of these women had their places lowered by one. And look at Minna Sveard. Worked hard over the year to knock 3 seconds off her time to come 2nd...behind Telfer.

Hannah Mouncey AFL

Aussie rules has 18 players on each side. When Hannah Mouncey was allowed to play in the lower leagues, one of Mouncey’s teammates sat on the bench each game. Maybe another didn’t make the squad because their place on the bench was taken. All of Mouncey’s teammates were disadvantaged by having to share changing facilities. All of Mouncey’s opponents were disadvantaged by having to tackle Mouncey. Then multiply that by how many teams are in that league. Then add the umpires who were placed in a compromising legal position should any serious injury had happened to a woman. This is hundreds of women. There are too many to find to acknowledge individually.

Hannah Mouncey Handball

When Mouncey switched to handball, a woman didn’t get selected to represent Australia at the 2018 Asian championships because Mouncey was in the squad. A woman who made the squad didn’t get to start, because Mouncey started all 6 games. All of these women were disadvantaged by having to share changing facilities with Mouncey, something they complained about, according to Mouncey. Mouncey also played handball for a club in Melbourne.

I have found some of the names of the Australian women’s handball squad that played in the Asian Championships in 2018 but it isn’t comprehensive.

Rachel McKinnon/Veronica Ivy Track Cycling

When McKinnon (as was known then) won at the Masters cycling championships, every woman below had their place moved down by one.

www.cyclingmasters.com/site/results/450-f35-39-sprint-final-result-2019

Dawn Orwick missed out on gold. Kersten Herup Sovang missed out on silver.

www.cyclingmasters.com/site/results/385-f35-39-sprint-qualifying-round-result-2019

Amber Walsh didn’t get the chance to race for bronze.

Laurel Hubbard Weightlifting

When Laurel Hubbard, a middle aged transwoman whose wealthy family owns a cereal company in New Zealand, won weightlifting gold in Samoa, Feagaiga Stowers, an 18 year old indigenous Samoan woman, a survivor of abuse, was denied gold at her home games. Every other woman who finished below Hubbard had their place lowered by one.

www.oceaniaweightlifting.com/Portals/0/results/owf-results/2019PG.pdf?ver=2019-07-18-123626-010

The women affected were (page 41): Feagaiga Stowers, Iuniarra Sipaia, Charisma Amoe Tarrant, Mamuel Mwareow, Helen Anastasia Seipua.

The New Zealand team took 8 weightlifters to those games, 4 men and 4 women. Hubbard was counted as one of the latter. Which meant there was a woman left home back in NZ who didn’t get the chance to compete at the Pacific games. Weightlifters have to compete at a number of certain events to qualify for the Olympics.

Maxine Blythin Cricket

When Maxine Blythin won Kent Women’s cricketer of the year, someone else didn’t. When Blythin plays on the women’s team, either local or county, a woman is relegated to 12th woman. When Blythin smashes a smaller, lighter ball over a closer boundary rope, the women who are bowling to Blythin have their bowling averages increased. This is scores of women. It’s hard to find all of these women, but I found one match summary of a game when Blythin scored 152 not out. The bowlers all had very high runs scored against them.

www.play-cricket.com/website/results/3863705

These bowlers had their bowling averages and likely their confidence blown out by Blythin hitting 22 boundaries. So an acknowledgment of Ellen Burt, Megan Belt, Eleanor Monk, Naomi Woods, Bethan Harvey, Natasha Sole, and Hollie Young of St Lawrence and Highland Court first XI.

I can’t find who was runner up in Kent Women’s cricketer of the year.

Please feel free to add examples of ANY level of sport. This is hundreds of women and girls negatively affected by just a handful of non-Olympian trans athletes.

These women and girls matter.

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gardenbird48 · 24/02/2021 10:31

Lauren Jeska - running as a woman, Champion Fell runner for 3 years.

Jailed for attempted murder after visiting the UK Athletics office and stabbing an official causing life changing injuries. Lauren was a member of three big running clubs and had kept Lauren’s trans status hidden so will have affected many women in those clubs.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-birmingham-39266777

A teen family member missed out on a place in a championship squad to another competitor not born the same sex as her. No parent could speak up about the obvious injustice because their employers have been Stonewalled and they would fear for the repercussions.

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gardenbird48 · 24/02/2021 10:34

Tiffany Abreu- top ranked player in the womens group, Tiffany is aiming for the Olympics

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/03/17/world/americas/brazil-transgender-volleyball-tifanny-abreu.amp.html%3f0p19G=2103

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Winesalot · 24/02/2021 10:39

Keep an eye on Emily Bridges, GB cycling.

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UppityPuppity · 24/02/2021 10:41

Who was the boxer who smashed a woman’s skull in a fight? The woman opponent wasn’t informed that this boxer lacked a female body. The boxer subsequently stated that they liked hitting women.

Also - there were separate threads about a GB male cyclist and a transwomen aiming to compete in the paralympics.

Apologies for the lack of names.

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Winesalot · 24/02/2021 10:41

Kelly Morgan, Women's rugby player

www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/49298550

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Winesalot · 24/02/2021 10:44

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NotBadConsidering · 24/02/2021 10:45

@UppityPuppity

Who was the boxer who smashed a woman’s skull in a fight? The woman opponent wasn’t informed that this boxer lacked a female body. The boxer subsequently stated that they liked hitting women.

Also - there were separate threads about a GB male cyclist and a transwomen aiming to compete in the paralympics.

Apologies for the lack of names.

Fallon Fox, MMA not boxing. There are screenshots of Fox’s boasting somewhere.
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Winesalot · 24/02/2021 10:48

Caroline Layt, NSW Women's Rugby Player

www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-union/playing-experience-a-missing-piece-in-transgender-players-debate-20200819-p55nac.html

This quoted section stands out....

Not only did I survive, but I thrived, as I was nominated finalist in the prestigious Sydney Morning Herald rugby awards at the end of that year and I also took out my club's women's first grade best and fairest and leading try scorer awards.

I was also a team member of the Sydney First XV representative team which took out the women's national championship that year, adding icing to the cake.

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NotBadConsidering · 24/02/2021 10:49

[quote Winesalot]Kelly Morgan, Women's rugby player

www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/49298550[/quote]
To point out how Kelly disadvantages women:

When Kelly plays, a teammate is a substitute instead. A woman who would be a substitute isn’t in the match day squad. Players on each of the opposing teams in the league in which Kelly plays has to tackle Kelly and be tackled by Kelly. The referees at each game has to make a safety call as to whether the game can go ahead risking severe injury of the women Kelly tackles or is tackled by.

This is hundreds of women.

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RandomMess · 24/02/2021 10:49

Just makes me feels sick my DDs seem to not believe this is happening.

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gardenbird48 · 24/02/2021 10:52

Uppity - you may be thinking of Valentina Petrillo a 40 something Paralympic athlete who was a championship male runner a few years ago. No surgery but thinks that because hormone treatment has slowed their time by 1.5 seconds, they have no physical advantage over the female competitors.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN26222Q

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NotBadConsidering · 24/02/2021 11:00

Where possible, we should try and find the women and girls who have missed out and acknowledge them. Every time a biological male competes in women’s sport, the focus is always on that person and not the women and girls who have lost out as a result. They remain nameless, or not acknowledged, and the impact isn’t registered because the focus is always on the biological male’s “right” to compete. These women and girls deserve to be acknowledged. Sadly it’s not always possible to find them all, there are too many ☹️.

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BlackeyedSusan · 24/02/2021 11:02

remember the poster on here who was complaining about being bumped down the results for park run? her and all her fellow women running in that run. and all the runs every week.

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StandWithYou · 24/02/2021 11:10

NotBadConsidering just to emphasise re Kelly Morgan. Every time a member of the opposing team tackles Kelly; their risk of injury is increased by 20% - 30% then if they were tackling a biological women. This is based on World Rugby analysis. It should also include every women or girl who doesn’t want to take this risk and doesn’t play in that game or continue in the sport. Inclusive???

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GirlInterruptedAgain · 24/02/2021 11:14

Excellent post. Totally agree. Women are being disadvantaged, abused, discriminated against in the worst and sometimes degrading ways. Stand up for women. I have no names to add but wanted to show my support for women in sports. This is completely unfair. Let’s have a separate sports division for trans people. This is completely unacceptable and needs to change.

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UppityPuppity · 24/02/2021 11:15

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

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NotBadConsidering · 24/02/2021 11:19

Yes, great point. There are all the unnamed, unknown women and girls who decided they weren’t going to participate because of the safety risk or the unfairness, in any of the examples given above.

None of these women or girls register with TRAs. They’re not important, not “elite” enough. But you can be damned sure it matters to all of them Angry.

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UppityPuppity · 24/02/2021 11:24

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

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Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 24/02/2021 11:26

As a keen parkrunner myself (in normal times), I thought that wasn't the best example, as parkrun's strapline is 'It's a run, not a race' and the ethos is extremely supportive and celebratory of all abilities. Yes, the best runners are competitive with each other, yes, it must be marvellous to be the first finisher for your sex that week, or to hold the course record for your sex, but ultimately parkrun isn't about any of that. It's also a mixed event (free to enter, both sexes, all ages, people of all abilities and backgrounds, many with health issues or disabilities) so genuinely inclusive of all comers.

(parkrun itself uses the word gender when I would prefer to see sex, as that's what is relevant, but I swallow hard and overlook it. They also promote walking as well as running, which was what got me into it. And finally, the lower case p is correct.)

Having said that, I am totally in support of the general principle that males should compete against males and play in male teams, leagues, competitions. Where there are any safety issues, males should not be training with females either. Never, ever should changing/showering/toilet facilities be unisex.

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bluechameleon · 24/02/2021 11:31

Italian National Paralympic Championships September 2020. Valentina Perillo beat Antonella Inga, Anna Maria Mencoboni and Ciara Verzolla in the 100 metres T21 final. Presumably several others in previous rounds.

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334bu · 24/02/2021 11:34

www.outsports.com/2020/3/3/21162217/megan-youngren-tokyo-2020-us-olympic-trials-marathon-trans-athlete-chris-mosier-track-and-field

Megan Youngren who only started running a short time before gained place in Olympic trials. Their presence meant a woman somewhere didn't get an opportunity to go to Tokyo.

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334bu · 24/02/2021 11:36

Should also be pointed out that Valentina who will go to Tokyo Paralympics is 46 years old

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334bu · 24/02/2021 11:44

Kate Weatherly two time NZ national downhill cycling champion. Run of the mill when competing with the men but now champion.

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andyoldlabour · 24/02/2021 11:46

Three more:

Natalie Van Gogh, aged 46, still cycling for a UCI continental team.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natalie_van_Gogh

Kate Weatherly New Zealand. Competed in the women's downhill mountain bike category, three months after competing as an average male. Won two consecutive NZ championships.

interactives.stuff.co.nz/2018/03/a-level-playing-field/

Michelle Dumaresq.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Dumaresq

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andyoldlabour · 24/02/2021 11:47

334bu

Sorry, cross posted Grin

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