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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be proud of my son for standing up to his bully?

308 replies

Spreeofthemoment · 30/11/2022 17:09

My DS is in y6. One boy in particular has been making his(and a few others) life hell he’s it wanted to go to school because of him. Well today, he snapped and floored this boy after he came and pushed DS over(he’s always pushing him!). This boys nose was bleeding. I got a call off the head and told him I won’t be punishing my son and that I’m proud of him for standing up for himself and showing this boy he won’t be bullied anymore, as clearly the school weren’t doing anything to protect my son!

OP posts:
SinnerBoy · 30/11/2022 23:08

Well, I must say how surprised I am at how many people are supporting the bully, not the lad who had finally had enough and reacted.

healthadvice123 · 30/11/2022 23:34

@Pumperthepumper no it doesn't always happen at all
You can not have seen every retaliation ever and known how it ended
Kids have behaved a certain way for years no matter how much people think otherwise and for a vast majority someone standing up to a bully will often stop them or make bully move on, why do you think certain kids never get bullied ?

healthadvice123 · 30/11/2022 23:36

@crownandfillers I do get where your coming from but maybe we need to change that, and maybe OP DS knows the kind of kid he is ( as well as you can anyway) so this is not one of those situations

Delandra · 30/11/2022 23:40

Pumperthepumper · 30/11/2022 22:24

It always does. People parrot ‘and he never did it again!’ but that’s not true. Like I said, I’ve never seen a retaliation that improved a situation.

I defended myself a couple of times with two different shits and they stayed away from me afterwards. If there’s a gang of them then this wouldn’t work.

ComfortablyDazed · 30/11/2022 23:44

Pumperthepumper · 30/11/2022 22:24

It always does. People parrot ‘and he never did it again!’ but that’s not true. Like I said, I’ve never seen a retaliation that improved a situation.

Except that that’s just not true. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Say it all you want, but it won’t make it so.

Children learn the best - and worst - of their behaviour from their parents who model good (or bad) behaviour.

But children also learn through play, and the playground is sometimes where some fairly harsh life lessons are learnt - like it or not.

Children who behave anti-socially often end up being excluded and/or have their own behaviour meted out right back to them.

Then, they either learn and gradually self-regulate - so that throwing punches isn’t something any’party has to do - either for shits and giggles, or in self-defence. Or they never learn the lesson, and wonder why the world is against them.

That’s life.

jamira · 30/11/2022 23:52

You've said many times how proud you are of him OP, how envious you are that you wish you'd dealt with it like this when you were bullied, how you congratulate him for sticking up for himself etc etc. I think it's bit odd how much you're relishing this!
Be careful what you wish for - if he's still solving his problems with violence in a few years time you might find school won't have him.

Nat6999 · 30/11/2022 23:58

I put the fear of God in one of ds bullies, he never bothered ds again, nor did his bullying friends. He hid behind his mum when I was at parent's evening with ds, he knew that one wrong word & I would tell his mum exactly what he had done to ds.

jtaeapa · 01/12/2022 00:08

TicketToParadise · 30/11/2022 17:21

YABU

Its a shame you haven’t taught your child how to be confident and stand up for themselves without resorting to violence.

I would like to know how you stand up for yourself and be confident without resorting to violence when the person bullying you is doing it for fun and very deliberately.

There was a bully at my ds's school. He took stuff from people and put it in bins. How do you stand up for yourself when a bully takes your pencil case and puts it in a random bin where either you can't find it or it is covered in filth? He also took stuff and wet it and then chucked it up on lockers/at walls/in other random places. He would bully anyone for any reason he could see. My ds was one of his victims and was actually made to sit in a meeting with this bully and explain to the bully that he didn't like his stuff being put in a bin. I mean really. What difference do you suppose it made? It made the bully know that his actions were having the desired effect. So he ramped it up. I managed to get my ds moved into all different classes from this boy so instead the boy began bullying others.

There is one thing, and one thing only that stopped this bully who had been at it for years. It was violence. A group of 15 year olds, who'd had enough of this behaviour dealt with him. My ds was not involved in this, he heard about it afterwards. But I can assure you that everything tried by all teachers and pupils had no effect for years until then.

If you think that being confident and standing up for yourself solves bullying, you are mistaken.

ComfortablyDazed · 01/12/2022 00:25

jamira · 30/11/2022 23:52

You've said many times how proud you are of him OP, how envious you are that you wish you'd dealt with it like this when you were bullied, how you congratulate him for sticking up for himself etc etc. I think it's bit odd how much you're relishing this!
Be careful what you wish for - if he's still solving his problems with violence in a few years time you might find school won't have him.

I really don’t think the OP has anything to worry about on that front.

Clearly his modus operandi isn’t ‘solving problems with violence’, given he’s had to resort to it once in his life.

MyOtherCarIsAPorsche · 01/12/2022 00:46

I was a primary school teacher. I always told my own three children to 'not retaliate' with regards to bullies. I am unaware if they did. I never had any complaints about their behaviour from school.

All three of them were targeted by a certain individual - along with many other children in their primary school at that time.

My children were swung around by their clothes - torn hoods, torn sweatshirt sleeves, torn coat sleeves, cuffs pulled off from clothing. My son was squashed against a wall. My daughter had her shoulder pulled out of socket. She was swung around by her plait. She had her ear drum burst when he screamed in her face. (Blood running from her ear when her father picked her up.) I didn't keep a log of incidents - these are a few I'll always remember.

I was once contacted whilst at work to 'come and pick up your daughter because she is hysterical' after she was kicked on her shin - lump the size of a duck egg when I got to the school.

Other parents involved the police as soon as this individual became 10 years old and we were contacted by them to describe the abuse he had subjected my children to.

Nothing was done. There appeared to be no consequences. School didn't even stop his playtimes (this was when most of the abuse happened - and there were incidents every day). I think that my children would have been safer if the bully was kept in at break times - but the head teacher insisted he needed breaks to 'let off steam'. I even asked if my children could stay in at break times so they didn't encounter this person. (Effectively punish my own children for someone else's behaviour.)

I started my three children at self defence classes. I was intending on telling them it was acceptable to defend themselves (my daughters would not have anyway). They loved the classes until bully boy joined after about six months - the first time he went my daughter ended up with a black eye from him which lasted for 8 weeks. It was a no contact practice. I asked the class leader to ask the boy to leave - he refused, so I didn't take my children back there.

He was expelled from High School before he reached year 8.

This individual is 30 years old now and is in prison serving a long sentence for his cumulative crimes. The latest offence was beating up his expectant girlfriend.

What a wasted life.

My children often refer to the things he did in primary school when reminiscing. Also, the things he did as reported in the local newspaper.

Schools should be more proactive in safeguarding the children in their care and more proactive in preventing bullying. It exists in many forms - and is now inescapable as social media makes intimidation available around the clock.

If I was walking down the street and someone swung me around by my arm, dislocating my shoulder, the police would arrest the perpetrator. We accept that when the law is broken there are consequences. I don't understand why, after the age of criminal responsibility, more action isn't taken against children who repeatedly target children.

Surely prevention is better than cure.

A lot of people think that incidents of bullying aren't that common - the fact is that low level stuff is rife. I did not have time as a teacher to write down/report every incident/complaint - there aren't enough hours in the day. After every break time there would be up to half a dozen children telling me about what happened in the playground. The school policy was that the teacher on break duty would record any reports of bullying so that class time wasn't taken up sorting out constant arguments between children. It was unworkable - the teacher on duty would often have a line of children waiting to report unwanted playground behaviours. The constant low level stuff can be just as damaging as a physical attack.

The PHSE allocation was frequently consisting of how we treat others due to the number of children complaining daily. We would practise how we should react when targeted. It didn't stop unwanted behaviours.

I've heard of too many school bullies becoming work place bullies. (My network of teachers and ex-teachers keep each other up to date with news of achievements and other stuff we hear on the grapevine.)

Bullies should be stopped/made to see the error of their ways in order to protect them from potentially damaging others and themselves.

What is the solution?

I did give my children permission to retaliate at some point - thankfully I didn't hear of any incidents throughout the rest of their education. Perhaps they dealt with any issues themselves. We used to practice set phrases to say in order to 'call out' any unwanted behaviours as they occurred. This still applies. Some would say children can be worse than adults for bullying - but I've seen too many good people leave positions because of the behaviour of other staff. I can't stand bullies - I know they are the product of their own experience, but adults have no excuse for not being able to control their behaviour.

Who is responsible for guiding children to learn self regulation/self control/taking responsibility for their own actions/there are consequences for unwanted behaviours?

HeatwaveToNightshade · 01/12/2022 07:04

I'd love to know what planet some people live on. Having confidence or using some sort of magical robust command to desist doesn't make bullies go away. They just keep on coming. The school has a duty to protect children from this kind of behaviour. The school failed.

It sounds as though OP's child was relentlessly picked on and couldn't take any more. I, for one, don't blame him. Well done OP, for telling the principal that you won't be adding to your child's woes by punishing him. I hope the wee shit never touches your child again.

Redkettle · 01/12/2022 07:30

Good lad. Its the only way to deal with bullies

Mabelface · 01/12/2022 07:42

2 of my boys are gentle souls. Both have asd. Eldest used to do one punch and walk away after constant slaps, name calling, pushes etc. This worked for him.

The other had been pushed around for a few months, school aware but nothing done. He came home one day with a vivid handprint on his face. I got a call from the deputy head to tell me that ds had punched this lad after the slap. She didn't give ds any consequences at all. She knew he'd got to the end of his tether. The boy steered clear after that.

hookiewookie29 · 01/12/2022 08:21

There are obviously a lot of people on here who have never had their child bullied at school. Who have never had their daughter ring them from school to come and get her because they won't leave her alone.....who's daughter sat in the toilets at lunch time in the hope they wouldn't find her....who's daughter had disgusting, vile rumours spread about her which even got passed on to kids at other schools who then bullied her online.....who sat on the end of her daughters bed, while she was holding razor blade, begging her not to cut herself and scar herself for life for these girls.... and her telling me she doesn't want to be here anymore......and me feeling so fucking useless......girls who physically moved away from her in the canteen.....who screenshot a pic of a naked girl off the Internet and sent it to people and told them it was her. This was at secondary school. They told her at school to " just keep away from them" and never addressed it properly
Yet were quickly on the phone to us if she was disruptive in lessons.
And in the meantime these bullies got on with their daily education without reprise or fear.They waltzed around the school as if they owned the place. Meanwhile my daughter went to school every day,with a smile on her face, hoping that day would be different. I would have happily slapped every one of the little bitches myself if it meant that, even now, 4 years later, it would have stopped her feeling so shit about herself.
So all this " move her to another school", and " tell the teacher" shit that some are coming out with is just useless advice. We kicked off at the school several times, resulting in me taking myself there and kicking up a fuss before anything was actually done about it..
Although my daughter was the one who had to come home for lunch, out of the way - it then became a nightmare getting her back for the afternoon- but the bullies were allowed to stay on the premises with their own little girl gang and enjoy their socialising. Why should my daughter be made to feel like she's in the wrong?
They've scarred her for life, both physically and mentally ( she did self harm because of them, I just didn't know until after she left school ). She went to college, had a placement to go to, and when she got there, one of the bullies actually worked there
She turned round and walked out. She got into trouble with college because of it and they couldn't understand her reasons why and told her that" she's an adult now and just to deal with it".....even though her mental health issues and the reasons for them were on her file.
There are times in this world when you have to stand up for yourself. If you don't,you get walked over. If I'd known back then the long term effect these bullies would have on my daughter, I'd have encouraged her not to take any shit from them right from day one. Anyone who has never had the misfortune to be in that position, but can happily say " don't fight violence with violence " hasn't got a clue what it's like. Sometimes it's the only language they understand.

SinnerBoy · 01/12/2022 08:29

jtaeapa and hookiewookie29

How absolutely awful. I'm sure our philosophers will be here shortly, to tell you what you did wrong...

HeatwaveToNightshade · 01/12/2022 09:40

What a horrible horrible experience for your daughter @hookiewookie29. It's at times like this I hope there is such a thing as karmaFlowers

Jellycatspyjamas · 01/12/2022 09:47

There comes a point when, having tried all avenues, physically fighting back is the only option. I’d never leave my child unable to defend themselves in the face of physical bullying - the moral high ground is great, but going into school daily to be pushed around is truly shit. My two know it’s never ok to hit first, but it’s absolutely fine to defend themselves.

hookiewookie29 · 01/12/2022 10:22

@HeatwaveToNightshade
@SinnerBoy
Thank you x Nobody knows how bad it can be, or what it's really like unless they've actually been there. My daughter has one friend. That's it. It breaks my heart that she's missing out on being part of a nice social group because of what these girls did to her. Her self esteem is so low that she worries what people think of her, so she doesn't bother socialising. 😪😪😪 I so wish I could take it all away from her x

hookiewookie29 · 01/12/2022 10:24

Jellycatspyjamas · 01/12/2022 09:47

There comes a point when, having tried all avenues, physically fighting back is the only option. I’d never leave my child unable to defend themselves in the face of physical bullying - the moral high ground is great, but going into school daily to be pushed around is truly shit. My two know it’s never ok to hit first, but it’s absolutely fine to defend themselves.

This!!! 1000%!! Nobody would put uo with it as an adult- we'd fight back- so why should we expect our kids to just suck it up!!

Spreeofthemoment · 01/12/2022 10:39

I was bullied terribly in primary school(back in the 80s) and fuck all was done about it. I wish I’d been the sort of kid who could stand up for herself, but I wasn’t. I relish seeing the bullies now and how shitty their lives are. Most turned to crime and/or drugs-and it shows. I smirk at them when I pass them in the street. One tried to add me on SM a few years ago, trying to sell me candles. I DMd her with a laughing face and promptly blocked the bitch

OP posts:
Peoniesandcream · 01/12/2022 10:45

All the "holier than thou" pp's saying he should be ashamed for fighting back are the kind of people who have never had a fight in their life and I suppose would just let their child be bullied forever?

OoooohMatron · 01/12/2022 10:47

hookiewookie29 · 01/12/2022 08:21

There are obviously a lot of people on here who have never had their child bullied at school. Who have never had their daughter ring them from school to come and get her because they won't leave her alone.....who's daughter sat in the toilets at lunch time in the hope they wouldn't find her....who's daughter had disgusting, vile rumours spread about her which even got passed on to kids at other schools who then bullied her online.....who sat on the end of her daughters bed, while she was holding razor blade, begging her not to cut herself and scar herself for life for these girls.... and her telling me she doesn't want to be here anymore......and me feeling so fucking useless......girls who physically moved away from her in the canteen.....who screenshot a pic of a naked girl off the Internet and sent it to people and told them it was her. This was at secondary school. They told her at school to " just keep away from them" and never addressed it properly
Yet were quickly on the phone to us if she was disruptive in lessons.
And in the meantime these bullies got on with their daily education without reprise or fear.They waltzed around the school as if they owned the place. Meanwhile my daughter went to school every day,with a smile on her face, hoping that day would be different. I would have happily slapped every one of the little bitches myself if it meant that, even now, 4 years later, it would have stopped her feeling so shit about herself.
So all this " move her to another school", and " tell the teacher" shit that some are coming out with is just useless advice. We kicked off at the school several times, resulting in me taking myself there and kicking up a fuss before anything was actually done about it..
Although my daughter was the one who had to come home for lunch, out of the way - it then became a nightmare getting her back for the afternoon- but the bullies were allowed to stay on the premises with their own little girl gang and enjoy their socialising. Why should my daughter be made to feel like she's in the wrong?
They've scarred her for life, both physically and mentally ( she did self harm because of them, I just didn't know until after she left school ). She went to college, had a placement to go to, and when she got there, one of the bullies actually worked there
She turned round and walked out. She got into trouble with college because of it and they couldn't understand her reasons why and told her that" she's an adult now and just to deal with it".....even though her mental health issues and the reasons for them were on her file.
There are times in this world when you have to stand up for yourself. If you don't,you get walked over. If I'd known back then the long term effect these bullies would have on my daughter, I'd have encouraged her not to take any shit from them right from day one. Anyone who has never had the misfortune to be in that position, but can happily say " don't fight violence with violence " hasn't got a clue what it's like. Sometimes it's the only language they understand.

My god your poor girl. This makes me so bloody angry. 💐

Goldbar · 01/12/2022 10:49

It is entirely acceptable to use reasonable force in self-defence. No one should be expected to just stand there and endure violence and the school is wrong to suggest he has behaved badly in defending himself. We are all entitled to defend our physical integrity against attacks.

Delandra · 01/12/2022 10:58

I’m amazed there are people here who are critical of OP’s son defending himself. Why should anyone be forced to put up with repeated physical assaults? Why should they be forced to leave their school to prevent further physical assaults? If the school hasn’t tackled this then OP’s son is on his own with a bully. We have laws stating we are entitled to physically defend ourselves.

PetraBP · 01/12/2022 11:05

TheaBrandt · 30/11/2022 21:21

Petra don’t understand your comment? That phase means if bullies go around bashing other kids they can expect to get bashed themselves and they can’t really complain about it…

Yeah, that’s about the size of it.

Unfashionable as consequences may seem in this judgement-free world where the bully is just as much a victim as the…er…victim, it may make bully think twice!

Clearly nothing else was working.