To ask SS to leave

[fisher7]

I feel awful writing this but I'm at a loss on what to do next

18yo SS lives with me full time, his mum passed away 9 years ago and my DH passed away during the first lockdown which hit us all hard. He had the choice of going and living with his aunt (mums sister) but he declined as he wanted to stay with me and she lived quite far away.

He attended counselling for a while but then stopped as he said it wasn't helping, he did go back to his old self eventually and seemed to have been coping fine.

Before he turned 18, he'd only drank once with his friends which was at 17 about 6 months before his 18th. Since he's turned 18, he goes out and drinks almost everyday, he's even smoked weed a few times. He spends most of his day on his Xbox, he doesn't help around the house with tidying etc.

Earlier, he was out and me and the other rest of us ate dinner, one of the DC’s washed up as it's their turn he got back and ate his dinner and then left his plate on the side. I asked him to wash it up, he said no and told me to do it, I told him he's an adult now etc which led to him shouting that I'm not his mum so I can't tell him what to do, he hates me, wishes I died and not his dad etc. DS(13) then came down and told him to leave me alone, SS then started shouting at him that he can't tell him what to do either and pushed him and went to his room.

DS is fine but has said he doesn't want to go to his dads tomorrow and leave me with SS. I have been to speak to SS and he's apologised and I've asked if he'll speak to me properly tomorrow when the other children are at school but he's refused and told me to leave him alone.

I know I probably am, but will I BU to ask him to leave and stay somewhere else?

Thanks! I appreciate this❤

Apologies for derailing the thread. All the best to you, OP.

Ay, I'm off too. Good luck OP. I hope you find the way forward together, and brighter days lie ahead.

Maybe a bit if a break to his aunts and whilst you get some mh support in place for him and a job lined up for him.
college can be really hard for teens but a supportive workplace with more adults around to interact with can be much better. Start to see different sides to life, support from others etc.

Expecting a woman to stay in a house with an abusive man, IS misogyny. No matter which way you spin it.

I care very much about children being in violent and unstable homes. It's clear you don't, and are projecting your lack of care onto me as a way to shout me down. Well I will stand up for vulnerable women and children even if you won't. You are the one who has nothing useful to say except to enable abuse of the OP and a child.

Not once have you shown any concern to the OP's position or that of her young child. Not once.

If this was any other thread where a woman was talking about being a home with an aggressive/violent/drinking male and she had a young child, we'd all be telling her to leave asap or get him to leave.
So, why the difference here?

Yeah I'm baffled at the level of vitirol here.

It's not vitriol. I actually said, do some family counselling and talk about this first.

But if the kid is depressed and in a bad way, then just saying "poor little thing!" and enabling him, and letting him go on living this pathetic half-life as a room-recluse smoking weed, is not going to help him. He needs to start helping himself as well--nobody can do it all for him. Having a job or study that he goes to every day and having some clear rules and boundaries about behavior are important.

If my biological 18 year old was behaving like this I would be sending him on his way
Especially if he was getting physical with my younger son and wishing death on me
How do you know the husband wouldn't have kicked him out too?

Hes 18, if he wants to play by his own rules then he can make his own way in the world..
Op has continued to support and look after him and he's unappreciative.

If OP allows him to stay and continue this behaviour, he will not become a well adjusted man
He will think its OK to hit younger children, he will think its OK to be lazy , he will think its OK to blame women and he will not learn to control his emotions
Its sink or swim for him, he needs to decide who he wants to be

An 18yo pushing his brother - no matter how unacceptable- doesn't make him an "abusive man".

I'm usually the first to shout and have helped others leave abusive relationships. This is a boy - he didn't magically ping into being an adult man at 00:01 on his birthday a few months ago.

He's dealing with huge grief and pain and needs support. No one is suggesting that the the op put herself and her biological son at risk, but that she needs support for all three of them to come through this.

I apologize. That wasn't directed towards you. I may have quoted you by accident. Your post was not at all vitrolic.

Yes, an 18 old man pushing his stepbrother does make him abusive. Add on 10 years and have him pushing a 13 year old child or a woman. Still think it's not abusive? What are you waiting for, for him to actually hit them before you call out his abusive behaviour for what is?

At what stage is he an adult then? Where do you draw the line? 00:01 the day after his 21st? Or his 25th? You're arguing semantics.

The fact is, at 18 he is able to drink, vote, enlist to fight in wars. He is, an adult. And, he is stronger than the female OP, and a 13 year old boy.

OP also said that he was fine until he started drinking every day just because he was legally able to. I don't think this is so much about grief but about a aggressive and selfish person using the drink as an excuse. With or without the loss of his parents, I think he'd still be the same person.

Exactly.

There is a vulnerable woman and a vulnerable 13 year old child here.

Who will advocate for them? Why don't they matter?

No one has said they don't matter.

And it's not semantics, it's science.

His behavior is unacceptable - no one disputes that. But the majority of people here believe the way to resolve it is with compassion.

Compassion doesn't mean a lack of consequence or boundaries.

And not write him off as an adult abuser of women and children.

Because he's her child.

I know you will come out with but he's not OPs real child as he's not her flesh & blood.

Does this mean that adopted or long term fostered children shouldn't think of their adoptive/LTF parents as their parents as they're not flesh & blood & should be chucked out as soon as they're 18 & being difficult?

Is my best friend who was raised by her DSM but not formally adopted wrong to call her Mum & think of her as her DM?
Is her DSM wrong to call her DSD her DD & think of her as her DD?

They would both be horrified & downright furious if this was suggested.

P.S. My friend was a problem teenager but luckily was helped/supported & loved by her DSM not thrown out on the scrap heap.

I lost one parent young and turned to drink for a while back in the day when it was easy to get served from about age 14.

Your ds needs to see his dad. He also needs protecting from your dss. It sounds as though your dss needs a bit of a male role model. Do you have anyone for this? A friend or relative, even your ds’s dad if you get along.

I wouldn’t kick him out. You could perhaps organise for him to stay with his aunt from today for a couple of weeks and visit him this weekend whilst your ds isn’t home. Frame it as everyone needing time to calm down. Explain to him you love him but you all need a break as things are getting very heated and you’re concerned he’s getting lost, drifting, which his dad wouldn’t have wanted for him.

By only thinking of the stepson and not of the mother and her child basically shows they don't think their safety or stability matters.

Again I ask exactly where is your cut-off from when he is an adult? And is that at 00:01 on that day, or some other time? Facts show that a person is an adult at 18, this is a truism that has been around for decades if not centuries. They can vote, can drink (at least in some countries), can enlist in war. They're an adult. This is a legally recognised fact and always was ever thus. I'd like to know that, what age you define an adult and where is that line, at exactly what time.

I think compassion means compassion for all, especially the most vulnerable in this situation. Having tough love and sending him to his aunts - for the time being, until he gets help, not forever - is the best form of compassion. It protects the most vulnerable as well as considering the SS's needs by providing consequences for actions as well as counselling and putting a plan in place. But having lived in an unstable home with violence, I recognise that the most innocent and most vulnerable must be protected. Yet hardly anyone on this thread have stopped to think of the most vulnerable. They're all sobbing for the man because he lost two parents (truly sad but many of us have gone through worse and didn't drink every day and get abusive) and feel sorry for him. But, hardly anyone on here, apart from myself and a few others, are advocating for the woman and her child. Everyone else is feeling sorry for the grown man who really hasn't had much more hardship than many of us, and much less than others around the world have gone through. We all have had hard things happen, some of us have had much much more horrific things than losing both parents as a teenager. Some never grow up with their parents at all, and much worse. I feel for him, I do, I'm not heartless but I also can tell he had a better life than many have. But he is not the victim here, the OP and her son is. Their needs must come first.

I forgot this, thanks to Mummyoflittledragon for pointing it out; DS is fine but has said he doesn't want to go to his dads tomorrow and leave me with SS.

The fact that her own son is too afraid to leave his mum alone with SS indicates SS's behaviour is a bit more than just a push and answering back.

Anyway it's the middle of the day where I am and I'm slacking off work (wfh) so I better stop hogging the thread and get back to my work.

He needs boundaries, but also to know the door is open to him at any time if he steps up. I would firmly but lovingly set out that he is now an adult and xyz are the boundaries of what is acceptable. If he steps over these he is out. I think he will quickly come round and he is acting out through pain, but he is an adult (though a young one) and very capable of hurting you and creating damaging, life long habits for himself. He needs support, but not from you - a mentor, a teacher, a counsellor - to get through this.

I’m sorry OP, this sounds tough. I agree with Annabelle3. My priority would be mine and my DC safety - you can maintain a relationship with DSS but now he is an adult (and has an aunt he can live with until he finds his feet) he doesn’t need to live with you. Some physical distance will probably be healthier for all involved. Good luck and sorry for your loss x

All of this.

You shouldn't have to tolerate aggressive behaviour, but I think you owe it to him and his dad to communicate more so he understands the potential consequences if he doesn't change. Booting him out now would turn his life upside down (again) with potentially serious consequences.

Does this mean that adopted or long term fostered children shouldn't think of their adoptive/LTF parents as their parents as they're not flesh & blood & should be chucked out as soon as they're 18 & being difficult?

Adopted children are deliberately chosen and taken on by their parents. A step child is not automatically the same thing. Step parents do sometimes choose to adopt their step children, but that is a specific procedure, and the OP did not say anything about having adopted her SS in this case.

I agree there is some moral responsibility here, but moral responsibility is all the more reason to have it out with this young man, not just ooze sympathy and leave him on his xbox all day. How on earth is that going to help him?

TBH, a bit of weed , playing XBox all day is sadly not unusual for his age group.

Cannot believe the incredibly low standards a lot of people seem to have for young men. Is it any wonder there are record levels of depression and mental health issues in this group? No, playing video games all day is not normal or acceptable. It's what a young man does when he is drifting and needs a wakeup call. Job, study or training, and decent behavior at home, including helping out. If he can't stick to those rules, he needs to go to his aunt, or something else needs to happen.

What financial provision did his father make for him?

I don't think this is so much about grief but about a aggressive and selfish person using the drink as an excuse. With or without the loss of his parents, I think he'd still be the same person.

Astonishing lack of empathy.

I think you cannot move to asking him to leave as an immediate option.

An earlier pp has it right - in a neutral venue, when you are both calm, you need to set out the ground rules, and offer him help (re education or a job). You need to give him a clear timeframe for change.

You also need to do your best to get him to attend counselling.

I'm so sorry for you all; you've all had such a loss. But this poor boy has no-one now, and asking to leave before trying everything is not right.

You do also need to discuss the situation with your DS, and let him know you have a plan.

Good luck. 💐

The pain he has to go through is immense. He needs support and stability. let him stay with him.