Page 21 | Be honest: Do you think single and childfree people are less than?

Sonervousimgonnathrowup · 2022-11-29T10:13:59+00:00

I am that person. It suits me. But fucking hell do I get comments, questions and often it seems like I’m treated like a second-class citizen. Do people still today look down on single / childfree people?

chronictonic · 01/12/2022 11:14

Definitely not! How boring the world would he if we all wanted the same things and to live the same way.

RudsyFarmer · 01/12/2022 11:18

Our childless neighbours have shown themselves to be fairly unpleasant over the years so if they were my only barometer I’d probably say yes. Assuming you’re a nice, normal friendly person then I expect I’d give you no thought whatsoever.

Spottedslug · 01/12/2022 12:27

@RudsyFarmer

But what has their childlessness got to do with it?? Why bring that into it? Surely if they're unpleasant, then that's that .

KimberleyClark · 01/12/2022 13:59

Spottedslug · 01/12/2022 12:27

@RudsyFarmer

But what has their childlessness got to do with it?? Why bring that into it? Surely if they're unpleasant, then that's that .

Well yes. I see posts on here about “my childless work colleague”, “my childless SIL” when their childlessness is not relevant to the issue.

dcut · 01/12/2022 14:11

Our childless neighbours have shown themselves to be fairly unpleasant over the years so if they were my only barometer I’d probably say yes

What on earth has their childlessness got to do with the price of fish??

My neighbours downstairs are complete and utter knobs. They both have children to previous partners so if they were my only barometer I'd probably say yeah, people with children are knobs.

Or maybe your knobby neighbours and my knobby neighbours are just unpleasant knobs and their child status is completely irrelevant.

RudsyFarmer · 01/12/2022 15:37

Spottedslug · 01/12/2022 12:27

@RudsyFarmer

But what has their childlessness got to do with it?? Why bring that into it? Surely if they're unpleasant, then that's that .

It’s very relevant as it involved my children.

BlueLabel · 01/12/2022 16:36

RudsyFarmer how? If it involved your ferret would you be calling them your ferretless neighbours or just the dickheads next door?

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 01/12/2022 16:37

BlueLabel · 01/12/2022 16:36

RudsyFarmer how? If it involved your ferret would you be calling them your ferretless neighbours or just the dickheads next door?

Exactly.

Ted27 · 01/12/2022 16:41

@BlueLabel
That made me choke on my tea 😄

Popgoestheweaselagain · 02/12/2022 08:30

Gang · 01/12/2022 08:38

@Popgoestheweaselagain Surely its pretty rude to tell people that they'll change their mind over any life decision

Imagine you said you were getting married/had a new job/ got a puppy and people told you were going to change your mind and people were open about how the thought youd regret it

I absolutely would listen to my close friends and family if they told me that they were concerned about the life choices i was making based on how well they knew me, eg. Dont marry him, or im worried that youve always wanted kids. However id be annoyed if susan in accounts who couldnt tell you my partners name let alone my family life, thinks that she knows my circumstances better than me and wants to warn me that ill change my mind

"Ive decided not to move to spain"
"Ah everyone says that but then you hit 30 and boom youll want to move to spain. I cant imagine my life if i hadnt moved to spain"
"Nah im pretty happy with my life as it is"
"Are you sure? Whos going to look after you when your old? I never knew true happiness till i moved to spain. Youll regret it"

Its an assumption that you dont know how to make the right choice for you

Its always with the undertone that you are making the wrong choice, and to be honest the people that question it tend to be completely random! People seem to assume that i wont have weighed it up myself or been aware of the consequences and that they should remind you

I imagine the same happens to people who say they are trying for a baby that people want to tell them all things about the choice they already know

Maybe some peole are just really rude and patronising - like some people on this thread. The thing is if I was having a casual conversation with someone and they said something like 'I don't want to have children I couldn't go through childbirth' I would probably launch into reliving my own childbirth experience and how it was all worth it in the end, without thinking that I was being rude or dismissive. Or I might tell them an anecdote all about so and so who seemed like she definitely didn't want kids and then, 42, had a baby. I have a friend who keeps telling me and everyone else that she definitely doesn't want children and I want to say 'You know, if you change your mind, we won't laugh at you', because why does she even need to tell me her long term plans? Long term plans change, and I'm not sleeping with her!

Like I said to another poster, if you don't want to discuss it, don't tell people - especially strangers of acquaintances - that you don't want children. They might mistake it for a conversation opener about the pros and cons of having kids, or they might just wonder why you're so definite about it, rather than just taking life as it comes.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 02/12/2022 08:38

when I see people react so viscerally against having children ("thank fuck") is that I question where it's coming from

It's coming from the fact that from the age of 15 I decided I didn't want children and that's all. Question all you like where it comes from if you want.

TedMullins · 02/12/2022 12:11

marmalard · 30/11/2022 22:22

*You cannot erase the fact that experience is fundamentally individual, and any comparison as to the value or an experience can only be made with yourself. You go to Spain and love it, someone else will go to Spain and fucking hate it. Someone else will look at Spain, say ‘I think the fuck not’ and go to Croatia instead, because Spain doesn’t appeal, doesn’t have to appeal, and provides nothing inherently more valuable than not going to Spain. That is true when Spain is used as a metaphor for having children, as well as literally how different people will consider Spain.

You’re also speaking as if it’s established that experiencing both is preferable to experiencing only one, but that is an entirely subjective opinion, rather than a universal truth. Experiencing parenthood is not superiority over those that haven’t, any more than someone who has experienced being shot is superior to someone who has, well, dodged a bullet.*

I'm not trying to erase that experience is individual, but I am saying that there is also collective experiences e.g. wet today, yes I got soaked, me too etc. or indeed we went Spain last, Och so did we wasn't it fab etc etc.

And if you haven't experienced parenthood how can you be so sure it isn't a superiority over those that haven’t?

Ok, if you want to split hairs then no I can’t be absolutely 100% certain that parenthood isn’t superior to my experience of being childfree. However, knowing what I know of parenthood from reading things on here, observing parents IRL and talking to people I know with kids, I’m as certain as it is possible to be that I’d find it absolutely dreadful.

antelopevalley · 02/12/2022 12:22

My life when I was in my twenties and without children is very different to what my life would be now in my fifties without children. Life constantly changes. Unless you live a very limited life, your life is constantly changing anyway. I have moved countries twice, married, changed jobs had different lifestyles - and also had two children. My life would have been different if I had lived all my life in the same street I was born in as one of my neighbours had, even if I still had children.
We all make so many choices about how we live our lives and there are pros and cons with every choice. I have enjoyed moving around and experiencing different countries and places. But my neighbour knew older adults she had first met as a young child and still knew as she saw them in the street regularly. She had way more acquaintances than I have ever had.
But that is life. There are pros and cons to every choice. Pros in having children and pros in not having children. We all make the choices that we think will work best for us, but we never really know.

HerMajestysRoyalCoven · 02/12/2022 12:33

@RudsyFarmer Interestingly when people tell me their neighbours have complained about their children, I tend to assume the children aren’t well-behaved. Assumptions can go both ways.

HappinessAlley · 02/12/2022 12:38

antelopevalley · 02/12/2022 12:22

My life when I was in my twenties and without children is very different to what my life would be now in my fifties without children. Life constantly changes. Unless you live a very limited life, your life is constantly changing anyway. I have moved countries twice, married, changed jobs had different lifestyles - and also had two children. My life would have been different if I had lived all my life in the same street I was born in as one of my neighbours had, even if I still had children.
We all make so many choices about how we live our lives and there are pros and cons with every choice. I have enjoyed moving around and experiencing different countries and places. But my neighbour knew older adults she had first met as a young child and still knew as she saw them in the street regularly. She had way more acquaintances than I have ever had.
But that is life. There are pros and cons to every choice. Pros in having children and pros in not having children. We all make the choices that we think will work best for us, but we never really know.

I think this is very wise.

Mummysgogetter · 02/12/2022 15:06

AuntieAunt · 29/11/2022 14:56

I think this is really interesting and in a hundred years this mindset (hopefully) will be gone. I do think this mindset currently differs between what social circles you’re in. I’m in my late twenties and nobody in my core friendship groups have started having kids yet (but we’re all skint either trying to get onto the property ladder/just got our first mortgages/still working on careers etc). We’re all getting pressure from grandparents/parents but I think it’s only our singletons in my circle take offence to these comments as I did before I was in a LTR.

My neighbours are in their late 40s without kids. They have a great relationship, lots of holidays/hobbies, really in love with each other, really lovely people and madly in love with their dog. I have wondered if they’re childless by choice or if it was infertility just because I hope they’ve not gone through the pain of infertility as they’re such lovely people.

Why I find this mindset most interesting is because there’s quite a lot of adults who shouldn’t have kids. I know people who hate kids and go on to have kids just because it’s the done thing. While they love their kids (I’ve never heard someone say they don’t love their kids but that’s because that’s pretty socially unacceptable) they don’t particularly like them. I have a lot of respect for adults who are honest enough and have thought about having kids and decide it’s not for them.

I have a family member (I lived with her for quite a few months so I know the behind the scenes) who hates kids, had kids because she didn’t want to miss out/regret not having them so found the first guy who would go along with it and is now a pretty shitty mum just meeting the basic needs of the kids. She had a great life beforehand, top career, loved travelling and very materialistic. She honestly hates spending time with her kids, she’s never baked/cooked/arts and crafts with them, she’s never played a game with them, she only goes on holiday once a year now but never with the kids (she needs a break apparently), she works away quite a few nights of the week and has one day to herself at the weekend to unwind. She hates that the kids are messy (kids can’t colour in the house incase it damages the furniture), she hates that she doesn’t get a moment peace, she hates the company of children, she hates how she doesn’t live her normal life as the kids are expensive. I was pretty shocked when I found out that she was planning on having a baby but everyone said it would be the making of her. Her life beforehand wasn’t selfish, she worked and played hard.

I don’t particularly like dogs, I know a lot of people who love having dogs and understand the pros. I know even if I wanted a dog I don’t have the lifestyle for a dog nor want to give up my lifestyle to be a responsible dog owner. I could possibly hire a dog Walker during the day and I’d probably meet the minimum requirements to require a dog. Overtime I’d probably fall in love with the dog and I know sometimes I’d enjoy walking it. I have a happy life and like my current lifestyle therefore I don’t feel the need to get a dog. But most importantly I don’t want one and I’d probably not be the greatest dog owner in the world as I don’t really like them.

I never judge people who are childfree. I judge people who choose to have kids who wouldn’t even meet the minimum requirements to rescue a dog. Children aren’t therapy tools nor accessories.

Hopefully sooner than later it will become the social norm for people to be childfree. Society would greatly improve for starters. Same for people who are in unhappy relationships just because they think it’s better than being single.

just remember OP, everyone is judged in this world, some for not having kids, some for having too many kids, some for not having careers, some for being young, some for being too old, some for not being financially independent… if you’re happy so should everyone around you.

This is the best reply I have seen 😍

TinaTeaspoons · 02/12/2022 15:09

Sister is late thirties, single and no kids and always says she feels less than mums or those in relationships. People make her feel abnormal for not being in a relationship most of all 😞

RudsyFarmer · 02/12/2022 16:03

HerMajestysRoyalCoven · 02/12/2022 12:33

@RudsyFarmer Interestingly when people tell me their neighbours have complained about their children, I tend to assume the children aren’t well-behaved. Assumptions can go both ways.

It had nothing to do with my children’s behaviour so that’s you making the assumption.

HerMajestysRoyalCoven · 02/12/2022 16:58

RudsyFarmer · 02/12/2022 16:03

It had nothing to do with my children’s behaviour so that’s you making the assumption.

Show quote history

So they complained about your children for some other reason than their behaviour?

RudsyFarmer · 02/12/2022 17:08

They hounded me at a time when I had my child slumped in my arms, running out the door to an emergency doctors appointment. Then jumped out at me again when I returned home once again carrying my five year old in my arms. That amongst many other selfish, narcissistic actions prioritising their fence, their driveway, their builders, their house, their garden, their fucking dog over everything else certainly makes me wonder if they’d have a little bit more consideration if they’d had kids of their own.

dcut · 02/12/2022 17:14

They hounded me at a time when I had my child slumped in my arms, running out the door to an emergency doctors appointment. Then jumped out at me again when I returned home once again carrying my five year old in my arms. That amongst many other selfish, narcissistic actions prioritising their fence, their driveway, their builders, their house, their garden, their fucking dog over everything else certainly makes me wonder if they’d have a little bit more consideration if they’d had kids of their own

That is horrible behaviour. But they sound like the sort of people who would be complete dicks even if they had kids.
I doubt they'd have any more consideration if they had kids.

As I mentioned in a reply to you upthread, I have knob neighbours downstairs. They aren't as bad as yours - but approaching it. They also have absolutely NO consideration whatsoever for anyone else living in this block of flats. Everything has to revolve around them. They do what the fuck they like. And they bully a family whose kids are now grown up - whenever the grandkids show up (and they are nicely behaved children), my knob neighbours start huffing and puffing and making a drama outside.
Awful, selfish, narcissistic people - and they both have grown up kids of their own and grandchildren.

notnowB · 02/12/2022 17:27

I definitely wouldn't look down on you in fact, I'd think you're very wise.

SideshowAuntSallly · 02/12/2022 17:36

Single and child free after a shit marriage. No one looks down on me and if they do they aren't worth my time. I wanted them but they never happened,I got used to it and learnt to enjoy life as it is.

I have a friend who repeatedly says she never wanted children but she had one because her husband wanted them and she was scared he was going to leave. She is miserable in her life.

LollyPops123 · 02/12/2022 18:21

People always try to 'matchmake' single friends or colleagues and make it seem like being single and liking it is abnormal. Sad really.

Mummysgogetter · 02/12/2022 18:26

I’m childfree; never wanted kids.

I wholly agree with parents that I won’t probably ever experience a love like what a parent feels for their child, but as I have never experienced that then I don’t feel I’m missing out. It’s a bit like someone never knowing what it’s like to be rich, whereas if you had been rich and then became average wage you would definitely know what you were missing out on.

I see my friend struggling with her son who is now 4, still doesn’t sleep through the night and is possible neurodiverse - she has dark rings round her eyes and she looks permanently knackered and stressed - I honestly cannot think of a worse situation, for myself that is, because I hate stress, worry, noise and having no freedom. But I envy the relationship she has with her 18-year-old daughter because she’s like a best mate and in making the choice I’ve made not to have kids I will never experience that. But that’s the price I have to pay. I thought very long and hard about my decision and the pluses of being a parent just didn’t outweigh the negatives, in my eyes and with knowing my personality/dislikes etc.

I think possibly non-parents can be less selfish as we have more time and resources to give to others than the harassed mum with barely any time to breathe. I am able to work part-time (because I’ve had the extra income to save) and for the rest of my time I volunteer for AGE Uk as a befriender. Also out of my siblings who do have children, I’m the one that does the most for my elderly parents and that’s fine because I realise I have more time and energy.

I think it’s strange that anyone would “feel sorry for” someone that is deliberately childfree 🤷‍♀️I’m pretty sure that they’ve, as did I, put a hell of a lot of thought into how they’d like their life to turn out and didn’t make the decision lightly.