Be honest: Do you think single and childfree people are less than?

[Sonervousimgonnathrowup]

I am that person.
It suits me.
But fucking hell do I get comments, questions and often it seems like I’m treated like a second-class citizen.

Do people still today look down on single / childfree people?

@DameHelena I suspect it’s closer to what someone else posted upthread, that legally they’ve no choice about mat leave, but it’s easier for them to get away with pressurising sick people.

My goodness it's all too technical I've never thought that deeply into the phrases childless/childfree.

When I don't have my DC on a weekend I would say I'm childfree do you want meet up of whatever. Its all a bit pedantic.

Sure, but I think the word harassment is more accurate. I'd be taking legal advice if my business pressured/guilt-tripped me about upping my hours.

It was @EmmaAgain22 post

@Heartonmysleevee To be fair, neither of the terms is for you, you’re a parent. So I don’t think you finding it tedious is relevant.

You can of course say you’re child free as in you don’t have your children with you. Nobody is going to think you mean that you never wanted children, because you have children.

@DameHelena Absolutely. I’m a lawyer and my union is aware of it so I’m not ruling it out.

But people who are childfree/less will end up having experiences that they wouldn't have had if they had had children.. so whilst maybe they have 'missed out' on certain things they wanted to experience, those with children have also 'missed out' on other things they could have experienced. There's no need to be feeling sorry for people because they haven't had the exact same experiences as you

Good for you. Not what you need when you're burnt out already.

What are you talking about? My comment was in response to someone else's post.

I do think everyone should get one paid leave, period, in their working life, to use as they see fit. Whether maternity, paternity, self-improvement sabbatical, traveling, volunteering, eldercare, whatever.

Then we'd all be on the same footing. Additional leaves if desired could be self-funded.

Are we though? You’re kinda assuming that everyone gets/would get the same thing out of children that you do, when that’s not the case. For some people the thing they’ve missed out on by becoming parents is a clean criminal records sans convictions for child abuse or worse.

I can at least see the appeal of sex, chocolate, and leaving England, but I can happily live with ‘missing out’ when it comes to having children in much the same way that I’m quite happy to miss out on getting stabbed in the ribs.

@ZeldaWillTellYourFortune I agree in principle but the issue is that I don’t think you can restrict people to 1 mat leave, and I don’t think anyone will accept childless/free people getting unlimited time off periods.

I’m childless because I really want to have kids but 12 miscarriages, £60k of IVF rounds and several years have shown me this isn’t happening.

If I was called childfree and envied for my situation, I would be incredibly fvcked off about it - it’s a VERY sensitive subject. The biggest heartbreak of my life and I don’t know how I can go on. If all your kids were murdered and you had someone tell you socially how lucky you were to be childfree, how would you feel?

If you managed to have the kids you wanted then you have no idea! Pedantry it is not, but a necessary semantic distinction.

People can take multiple maternity leaves but they can pay for it themselves, just like the rest of us do when our lifestyle choices necessitate time off work.

I would never admit it publicly, but yes I do feel a bit sorry for people without kids.

I know what a life without kids entails (had my children late) and I now know what life is like with children.

You'll only ever experience the former and I think that is a less rich experience (having experience both myself).

I know that sounds smug, patronising etc etc. but it is the thought that goes through my mind when I meet child free people.

I can happily live with ‘missing out’ when it comes to having children in much the same way that I’m quite happy to miss out on getting stabbed in the ribs

Throwing myself out a plane with a parachute strapped to my back is my comparison but I def like yours.

I know that sounds smug, patronising etc etc. but it is the thought that goes through my mind when I meet child free people

Yeah, you're dead right, it does. Want to hear what goes through my mind when I meet parents? 'Thank fuck I avoided that.'

You’re right to feel as you do. We all get to self define also sorry for your heartache

Quite.

LOL, same here!

You've missed out all those 'selfish' women who have gone on maternity leave 'again' or too close to the last time, or who ake the full time they're legally allowed.

This is why I'm a bit impatient with the 'I've made the choice not to have children - aren't I brave!' attitude. It's a bit diificult not to feel that the flip side of that is the implication that at least some women have children because they're just not brave enough to resist the social pressure. Maybe a few do - but anybody who does that has chosen a very difficult path - much more difficult than having to bat away a few ignorant comments. I think if the childless-by-choice fully realised this they wouldn't be so bothered by the social pressure or judgement they sometimes feel.

I know that sounds smug, patronising etc etc. but it is the thought that goes through my mind when I meet child free people.

You feel that way because you wanted children. That’s why you think your life with them is richer than without. Someone who doesn’t want kids will feel differently. I find it really sad that some adults genuinely struggle to understand that other people feel differently from them. Even very young children can do that.

@Popgoestheweaselagain I actually do realise this. My mum was one of those people who walked that “difficult path” of not being brave enough to recognise that she shouldn’t have had kids. She is an abusive alcoholic who spent my childhood telling me she regretted having kids, and we no longer speak.

I don’t have sympathy for those people. They may well be walking a difficult path, but it’s of their own making. I have sympathy for the kids who get fucked up in the process. I chose not to have kids because my chances of perpetrating the cycle were too great, and because I’ve no idea what good mothering looks like. I absolutely class that as a brave decision, and I’m really proud of it.

It's a bit diificult not to feel that the flip side of that is the implication that at least some women have children because they're just not brave enough to resist the social pressure. Maybe a few do - but anybody who does that has chosen a very difficult path -

I have huge amounts of sympathy for women who caved into the social pressure to have children, because let's face it, it's relentless. We can see that on here. The pity, the feeling that something's missing in your life, that something's wrong with you, that you can't or won't do something that's done by millions. Add to that the taboo on admitting that if you had your time again you wouldn't have children and I can see why a lot of people, men AND women, cave in.

much more difficult than having to bat away a few ignorant comments. I think if the childless-by-choice fully realised this they wouldn't be so bothered by the social pressure or judgement they sometimes feel

Except it's not just a few ignorant comments and it's not sometimes the childless by choice get this. I was lucky - I was reared by a GM and DM who I suspect didn't find motherhood that fulfilling and who never said anything to me about my personal choice; which didn't stop aunts, colleague, neighbours all having their say the minute I hit my twenties.

It’s just crazy isn’t it how much people judge each other. You’re judged if you choose to remain childless for multiple reasons and you’re judged if you choose to become a parent for multiple reasons!

Its mad how much we seem bothered about others lives