Be honest: Do you think single and childfree people are less than?

[Sonervousimgonnathrowup]

I am that person.
It suits me.
But fucking hell do I get comments, questions and often it seems like I’m treated like a second-class citizen.

Do people still today look down on single / childfree people?

To have had the thought 'Thank fuck I swerved that?'

You must have thought about what it was you were swerving, and therefore thought about what it entailed.

On the flip side do people who are childfree think their choice is a lifestyle one?

It’s a difficult decision for some people that needs a lot of thought and consideration, for others it’s an easy one because they just know they don’t want to or that it’s not right for them but it’s still something most people feel strongly about. “Lifestyle“ just sounds too flippant to me.

Me too. But I could only speak for someone with dc

I think it’s too flippant either way

Yes. Either way it's a lifestyle choice. How one will conduct one's life is one's "lifestyle." It's not some sacred, noble or altruistic act to have kids, you know. It's a lifestyle choice among many.

As to human beings becoming extinct, that can't happen soon enough to save this poor worn-out planet and all of the other species we have used, abused and decimated. Good riddance.

But no one forced you to do all that; it was your choice.

People who run marathons and triathalons go through intense physical experiences, too, and we don't pay them to not work.

I wouldn’t use those words you have said, but like pp find the phrase too flippant.

I prefer choice. Simpler and not inferring it’s lesser or greater

I find it really weird, this fixation on how many holidays child-free people supposedly have.
I know loads of people with kids who have multiple holidays a year, way more than DP and I can manage.

@ZeldaWillTellYourFortune 😂 you cannot compare childbearing, birth and looking after a baby in the first year to a marathon.

That's given me a good chuckle.

People who run marathons and triathalons go through intense physical experiences, too, and we don't pay them to not work

And yet those fuckers are always clutching a sponsorship form

Your post makes no sense.
No one's asking for a medal.
They just need time to physically recover and look after a newborn before returning to work.
Without it, most women wouldn't be able to stay in the workforce.
It's like begrudging someone ill with cancer paid sick leave because 'I have reasons to take time off as well.'

It’s absolutely nothing like it. No one chooses to get cancer. Or any other illness requiring tIme off for that matter.

That's irrelevant. If you're ill, you need time off. If you've just had a baby, you need time off. It's not a holiday.

I know right, it’s so strange lol… I think people are wildly overestimating the wealth and freedom of childfree people… Most childfree people have the same financial struggles as everyone else, and we also have other non child related commitments (work, family as some pp have mentioned some people are caring for their elderly parents etc)… We can’t just drop everything and jet off to some exotic paradise whenever we feel like it 🙄

It reminds me of the the naiivity of the question where if you dont have a tv, what is all your furniture pointed at?

Children are so central (usually) within their parents life that people cant imagine how you focus your life without them

Children dominate so that people forget that other things can also impact your time, money etc. People always talk about sleep eg, Im was a carer for someone who doesnt sleep much so didnt get much sleep. I think that people like to assume that its their kids who mean that they arent at the peak of their careers, so are confused when people who dont have that barrier arent CEO, working 24/7. Its just rarely that simple.

Life isnt all bliss either way. I dont have a bucket load of spare time, money etc.

Of course you can be a carer and mum, but theres always a has it worse scenario down to the bottom

well, not quite. You know what your life was before children, and you know what your life is like after having children. The value of that experience, positive or negative, is decided by you and you alone. As far as comparisons you, you are your only reference. You’ve experienced parenthood as Marmlard, you’ve never experienced it as Susan Smith.

You’ll never experience life as someone else, any more than anyone else can experience life as you.

As far as the value found in experience, well that’s individual also, as is it’s desirability.

@whumpthereitis yes yes you can take it down to individual level but this debate is about groups of people - the childfree vs those with kids.

Be it at an individual or collective level, it is true to say that people with children have perspective on a childfree and a 'child full' life. Whereas those who are child free have only ever the child free perspective - be that Susan, Claire or Geoff.

marmalard but surely if you are feeling pity for childfree people and the lack of richness in the experience you think they've had how can that come down to anything other than an individual level?

Are you feeling sorry for a swathe of people with no regard at all to their actual lived experience or achievements?

But it is down to individual level, that’s kinda the point. There is no universal experience, be it in regards to having children or being childfree.

To some extent, I agree. But if you had kids at say 25, you've no idea what it's like to be a childfree middle aged woman/man. The gulf in experience grows with every year of parenthood, obviously.

Wasn’t going to bite but thought I’d add a point from a “childless” spinster 😉

Why do we always have criticism towards the childfree? Are you kidding? We are actually helping keep the unwanted extra population down.

My childfree status was a choice (but even if I’d wanted kids it wouldn’t have happened as men hate me as much as I hate them 😉).

My small, lovely group of friends are all childfree and unmarried (by choice). We have wonderful doctors, teachers, a social worker, an actress and a psychologist in that group. All fabulous, clever (apart from me!) and have no need for offspring or a useless male’s skid marks to clean each day.

How about criticism towards people who keep churning out kid after kid which probably will serve no purpose to the world? On the contrary it will just add to the crazy population and deplete its resources.

We are already overpopulated, and I wish people would stop producing more and more. But I’m not allowed to say that am I? And there’s no point as the world’s population just keeps growing.

I’m not meant to judge, but I do.

@whumpthereitis and @BlueLabel

There isn't a universal experience I agree - and that can be applied to everything in life - like going on holiday with friends we'll all experience it differently BUT there are some fundamentals there that are the same.

There are commonalities between childfree people (just from this thread it seems people assume they have loads of holidays and sleep etc) just as there are with people with children (tiredness, difficult work life balance etc).

I think the crux of why the OP is feeling the way she is that imbalance of experience between childfree and people with children.

A bit like someone who's been to France and Spain, and someone who's just been to France.

The person who's been to both places will have have by default experienced more, than the person who's just been to France. You can argue about what they did there as much as you want but fundamentally one person has done both while the other hasn't.

It may not be a water tight analogy but I think makes the point.

marmalard I'm with you to some extent but disagree on a couple of points. IMO the OPs question isn't rooted in the imbalance of her experience - I disagree its imbalanced - but in the perceptions of the small minded people she comes across (and how they communicate them).

So for your analogy, not visiting one country automatically means that out of ignorance and arrogance there are others who assume her travel experiences are less than. Not different, less than. Without labouring your analogy further, there are so many other aspects to travel than just ticking countries off the list and the same premise applies here.

You cannot erase the fact that experience is fundamentally individual, and any comparison as to the value or an experience can only be made with yourself. You go to Spain and love it, someone else will go to Spain and fucking hate it. Someone else will look at Spain, say ‘I think the fuck not’ and go to Croatia instead, because Spain doesn’t appeal, doesn’t have to appeal, and provides nothing inherently more valuable than not going to Spain. That is true when Spain is used as a metaphor for having children, as well as literally how different people will consider Spain.

You’re also speaking as if it’s established that experiencing both is preferable to experiencing only one, but that is an entirely subjective opinion, rather than a universal truth. Experiencing parenthood is not superiority over those that haven’t, any more than someone who has experienced being shot is superior to someone who has, well, dodged a bullet.

@BlueLabel that's true. Another stab at it...

Maybe it's like going somewhere really amazing and telling another person about this place and they're just like...

(Childfree): I'm not going there.

(Person with kids): Ok but it's really amazing

(Childfree): Nah, what I have here is amazing

(Person with kids): Er well I've seen both places so I'm probably a better judge of what's amazing.

I think this might illustrate why the childfree persons experience seems less than.

@marmalard

Bloody hell , you really couldn't be more condescending if you tried