Why don't you foster or adopt?

[Myguessis]

Please, please stop asking this question to anyone that tells you they can't have children.

I promise you, they are already aware that adoption and fostering exists. You are not enlightening them.

Fostering and adoption are not solutions to infertility. They are huge undertakings in themselves, and the focus is on providing an often traumatised child a loving, stable home. Not to 'fill a hole' in someone's life. Yes, this can be the route some have travelled but it's not an automatic Option B!!

It's also a huge emotional challenge in itself, with the training, visits, and checks often taking months and months - many couples are still raw from unsuccessful invasive and physically demanding treatment.

Just don't make this 'helpful' suggestion. It's so insensitive.

Another friend (who had a daughter) and I were talking. She said she was desperate for another child. I said "me too" (as in I wanted my first child). She said "oh, but it's much worse for me, since I know what I'm missing out on". I was speechless.

Yes I’ve had this too. Even if it’s true it’s not the thing to say to someone who just wants to be a mother.

Another friend (who had a daughter) and I were talking. She said she was desperate for another child. I said "me too" (as in I wanted my first child). She said "oh, but it's much worse for me, since I know what I'm missing out on". I was speechless.

@Apollonia1 Unbelievable. I'm really gobsmacked by this.

My friends are normal people and not over sensitive drama queens.

My boiler broke the other day and my colleague asked if I had rang an engineer. I don't think he was trying to save me nor implying I hadn't heard of engineers. It's just a normal following up question to mu comment.

Yes I realise infertility is a sensitive subject (hence me saying that I do not ask about unless it's a friend or family member) however its the same reasoning. Nothing nefarious.

As someone going through infertility, if you were my friend or family member I would really rather you did not ask me if I had thought about adopting. I have had 2 people ask me this recently and it is, at best, unhelpful, and at worst, actively hurts.

Many people seem to have a "Quick Fix" button they need to press! Its almost like a reflex action .I am sure if they thought logically, that precisely zero percent of the population havent heard of Adoption, or considered it as an option they would shut up! Back in the 50s and 60s ,lots of very young babies were put up for adoption, from young girls unable to keep their child so many couples would "simply" adopt ,Recent news on BBC showed the effects on the birth mums ,now in their 70s and older .Many were traumitised and some had never had more DC either .Living standards then meant many families were squashed into one or two rooms, and simply lacked the means to care for extra children.Happily times and stigma of "unmarried Mums" has changed .Many children in the Care system have high needs and cannot simply "slot into family life" Some of these people also say "Oh why dont you get a dog!" Yes because a young puppy is going to answer all your problems!

Adopted children aren't consolation prizes, their needs are very different and much greater than just needing a loving parent
Different than what? A biological child?*

The implication that biological children only need a loving parent and that adopted children are some sort of monumental effort is niave at best offensive at worse.

Coming from people so acutely sensitive to their own feelings I would expect better.

As someone going through infertility, if you were my friend or family member I would really rather you did not ask me if I had thought about adopting. I have had 2 people ask me this recently and it is, at best, unhelpful, and at worst, actively hurts

Which is probably why we wouldn't be friends.

When my friends/family have struggled with fertility I have asked at the start when they first told me. They either said yes they would consider it or no they wouldn't. If they said yes I would ask again in future if they said no I wouldn't. Interpersonal relationships are fluid and nuanced and having "you should never day this to anybody" blanket rule is a ridiculous thing for an adult to seriously suggest.

Ironically the two that said no ended up adopting and fostering.

Children who are fostered/ adopted do have different needs. The current movement is towards keeping children with their birth families for as long as possible, so often by the time a child is placed into adoptive care they have been through years of difficult experiences. That is just how it is. It doesn't mean adopted children are any less, or that every single adopted child is traumatised, but it does mean that they generally have different needs, and they need a lot of love and support.

Children who are adopted/ looked after tend to be placed extremely carefully, the matching process takes a long time and the prospective parents usually have all kinds of training to do on parenting children who have been through trauma and what that means. That is why is takes years to adopt a child and rightfully so.

You are coming across as really quite uninformed on the topics of both infertility and adoption so I do wonder why you are posting so much 'wisdom' on this thread.

Well yes, I would do the same if someone asked me.

It doesn't mean I would like being asked or that it wouldn't hurt to be asked.

I know very little about infertility.

I know a great deal about adoption both professionally and personally. Even if I didn't I know enough to find that statement niave beyond belief because I also know a great deal about having biological children. They need more than loving parents and that's if you are lucky.

@Changeyncchange If you know very little about infertility, I recommend that you listen to the lived experiences of people who do, before spouting opinions about what they need.

Just because you friend and family members answer your questions politely, does not that your questions are in any way helpful or pleasant for them.

I have lost count of the number of times I have answered questions along the lines of 'Oh, have you thought about....?' from people who don't know anything.

It's fine that they don't know anything, but infertility is exhausting, draining, emotional and just bloody horrible in so many ways.

If you want to support someone going through it, just listen and empathise. Dont try to suggest solutions - because they are the expert. They know 100 times more than you and it only increases the frustration to go round the houses again and again.

It's the equivalent of asking a professional plumber fixing a leak if they've tried turning off the tap. Of course they bloody have.

Children who are adopted/ looked after tend to be placed extremely carefully, the matching process takes a long time and the prospective parents usually have all kinds of training to do on parenting children who have been through trauma and what that means.

Completely correct, @rippleraspberry

The vast majority of adopted children have been through the care system following abuse or neglect. They are more likely to have social, emotional and mental health issues and behavioural problems than their peers, and have lower attainment in school.

www.ncb.org.uk

Anyone claiming to work in this sector and saying otherwise is talking out of their hairy rear from the depths of their basement lair.

YANBU. For me it's those that claim "oh if that was me, I'd adopt"

How can they possibly know when they've not been confronted with infertility?!

So you were really open about something very personal but then got affronted at people conversing at a personal level back?

@rippleraspberry - well said 👏

But have you relaxed? Did you know that it’s most likely to happen when you’re not trying and you stop thinking about it?

Yes, I have heard about so many who “just gave up” and bang it happened.

If you know very little about infertility, I recommend that you listen to the lived experiences of people who do, before spouting opinions about what they need

Firstly I have.

Secondly I hate the term people with lived experience, it's the most condescending phrase in the world and also implies that there is consensus among groups when actually there is almost always a diversity of opinion.

Finally you are not asking me to "listen to PwLE" but to listen to the ones you agree with. The very small subsection of those people who you engage with who are likely very similar to yourself.

Just because you friend and family members answer your questions politely, does not that your questions are in any way helpful or pleasant for them

It's really grating that you feel the need to patronise my friends and family by implying that they cannot tell me how they feel themselves. They are perfectly capable of telling me and anybody else if they are hurt. Again it goes back to projection and assuming because you and your particular echo chamber feel a certain way you can speak on behalf of everybody.

If you want to support someone going through it, just listen and empathise. Dont try to suggest solutions - because they are the expert. They know 100 times more than you and it only increases the frustration to go round the houses again and again

Again, stop telling me how to engage with my friends and family. You don't know them. Infertility is not a defining characteristic that confers you superior knowledge of complete strangers feelings and relationships because they share that characteristic.

It's the equivalent of asking a professional plumber fixing a leak if they've tried turning off the tap. Of course they bloody have.

Indeed, and I wouldn't take offence.

And have you tracked your cycles?

😂 I mean no never thought of that. (Tbf some people do just go off contraception for a year so maybe im being harsh)

@OhPeggySue

Many women experiencing infertility just want their own baby. Adoption is not the answer for them and it can be really hurtful that it is suggested as a 'solution'. I guess it's about tact more than anything. Just because someone is being open about their struggles doesn't mean that every single topic relating to it is up for discussion. Presumably you'd think twice about asking what gynae investigations they'd had?

I agree. Infertility is a very complex issue and not one that can be fixed by these suggestions, no matter how well
meaning.

The only small subsection of dissension here is you.

@Changeyncchange I am simply giving you a suggestion based on my own experience about how your friends/ family going through infertility might actually be feeling, underneath their polite responses to you. There is no need to take such offence.

When people ask me these questions, I do talk to them, and I'm grateful for their interest and I know that it comes from a good place. They would have no idea that I secretly wish they were not asking me these questions, because I'm a pretty open person and I appreciate people caring and being interested.

I would of course have been 'perfectly capable' of telling them that it hurt to think about adoption, but I probably wouldn't do that, because they were trying to be supportive to me and they are people I like and care about.

You actually don't know about the internal worlds of your friends and family going through infertility - and I probably actually do have a pretty good insight in terms of that. In my 3 years of struggling with this, I have spoken to countless other people going through the same or similar, and I have never heard anyone say they were pleased when adoption/ fostering was raised and they were made to talk about it.

It just bloody hurts. Every time you say 'have you thought about adoption?' you are reminding that person that they might not be successful in having a biological child. That's not something they want to think about.

Anyway, if you really want to know the truth of it, go to your friend/ family member or whoever it is, and ask them if it hurt to think about adoption back when they were going through infertility and trying to have a biological child. See what they say.

That was my point.

Mumsnet is not a bastion of diversity, even if you put that aside it's called selection bias.

A thread saying "I don't like this thing" is far more likely to attract people who agree rather than people who disagree or don't care.

Also Internet communities are echo chambers by nature.

Finally lots of people just don't do online discussion and support at all.

I'm astounded that you continue to insist you are an authority on other peoples feelings.

You are not.

There is nothing unique about infertility that makes it a unifying condition/experience. I wouldn't dream of sitting here and telling people I have universal knowledge of the feelings of everybody who shares my trauma and challenges. Why do you insist that you do?