Why don't you foster or adopt?

[Myguessis]

Please, please stop asking this question to anyone that tells you they can't have children.

I promise you, they are already aware that adoption and fostering exists. You are not enlightening them.

Fostering and adoption are not solutions to infertility. They are huge undertakings in themselves, and the focus is on providing an often traumatised child a loving, stable home. Not to 'fill a hole' in someone's life. Yes, this can be the route some have travelled but it's not an automatic Option B!!

It's also a huge emotional challenge in itself, with the training, visits, and checks often taking months and months - many couples are still raw from unsuccessful invasive and physically demanding treatment.

Just don't make this 'helpful' suggestion. It's so insensitive.

I worked with parents of adopted children. On the whole it was not an easy ride and should not be the ‘alternative’ - possibly if the child is a baby and not encountered or remembered trauma.

And don’t say ‘do you want another?’ at the school gates when older child is 8yo, maybe there’s a reason?

@SommerTen - your situation sounds really difficult. At the risk of sounding patronising, your post showed so much strength to acknowledge the realities of your situation and make the decision you have.

the problem is lots of people are nosy and ask if you've got children, especially when you work in a sociable job such as healthcare like me.
Colleagues & patients ask do you have children, I say sadly no, and I've learned to say I don't want to discuss it which can come across as rude.
Colleagues who don't know about my health struggles are also very nosy about why I only work part time etc and obviously I don't want to share that info either.

Yes I do understand that people are nosy and it’s hard to know what to say.

Women especially get a hard time if they don’t have children but if someone asks me why I don’t have children or why I work part time etc I would just say because I don’t/because I do or because I choose to.

I try not to open a conversation about something I don’t want to talk about.

That’s how I’d start, yes. Then I’d listen more than talk. I certainly wouldn’t say things like ‘good for you.’

Odd that you’ve now backtracked, when the suggestions you gave initially were ‘what am I supposed to say? That’s nice? Ok? Good for you?’ Why did you think any of those would be appropriate answers? Surely you know they would be extremely insensitive to the point of sounding like you didn’t understand the conversation?

You don’t see how your response is worse? “don’t worry things will get better” is an awful thing to say to someone in the midst of a difficult situation and shuts down the conversation even more. Most competent adults will have thought about the solutions to their issues, I doubt you have the magic solution. I’ve found most people don’t need you to give them obvious solutions, they just want someone to listen.

One valuable thing I've learned from MN is never to ask anyone if kids are on the agenda or if they have any. On reflection, it's a very personal question anyway, regardless of a person's circumstances.

Oh come on, you must surely know that alcoholism and drug addiction are illnesses? People don’t choose to become addicts - they become addicts because their lives are awful.

As others have said, I think when people do talk about infertility and make the comments you’re suggesting (albeit not the adoption one which is ignorant) and having not been through it themselves people talk about others they know that have experienced it and what worked for them but it genuinely comes from a good place. I’ve said this to someone before and after reading this thread I didn’t realise it wasn’t the right thing to say. I’d feel awful just saying “this must be so hard for you” and not exploring what they were going through.
For me it was about trying to be positive and help the other person. I feel awful that my words may have caused them to feel upset to be honest.

this

everyone on here talking about the children up for adoption as damaged and traumatised goods is so wildly unkind. As if birth children are all perfect or at least those children are worth the effort.

Also please don’t tell stories of your cousins best friend sister who after years of infertility fell pregnant naturally with triplets. Also not helpful information.

Very true - although this exact thing happened to a woman I know! And she went on to have two more children.

Not relevant to the thread, just funny coincidence.

As someone with developmental trauma, I don't see it as unkind. I see it as necessary, because adoptive parents need to be prepared and trauma-informed both to handle challenging behaviour and avoid further traumatising the child.

Adoption is complicated. Attachment disorders and trauma don't need to be described as 'damaged goods' but they are the reality in most cases if you go down that route.

That is not what people are saying at all. The vast majority of children in the UK care system have been forcibly removed from their parents for reasons of addiction/neglect/abuse. As such there will undoubtedly be trauma from the situation they were removed from plus the trauma of being removed from their primary caregivers. Adoptive parents are left to deal with this trauma, often with very little help or resources from SS. It’s not unkind to talk about the realities of the adoption system in the UK. Of course the children awaiting adoption are just as valued as children who are not but to ignore they will have needs over and above those likely of a child who has not been removed from their birth family is ignorant.

Nobody has said that. They’ve said that the overwhelming majority (basically all£ of children in foster care or up for adoption will have suffered trauma, which is why they were removed from their birth families. They need dedicated carers/adoptive parents who have chosen fostering or adoption because it’s the right path for them, not because they couldn’t conceive and thought ‘oh well, I suppose I’ll just adopt.’ Foster kids/adopted kids aren’t consolation prizes for those who can’t have a baby, they deserve and need someone who has chosen this path. And I grew up in foster care - I had no interest in being or ability to be a fill in for somebody’s wanted child.

I always remember the touching moment in the film Lion where the character says something like ‘if you and dad could have had kids’ to his adopted mum and Nicole Kidman is nonplussed and says ‘we could have had children. We chose to adopt.’ There’s this horrible undercurrent of assumption that the only reason anyone would possibly adopt is because they can’t have their ‘own’ baby. And I find that wildly unkind.

if in doubt, say nowt. I don’t go round asking colleagues oooh how many go’s did it take you then to get pregnant or ooh why did you have 3. It’s so nosy if you’re not close.

You don’t see how your response is worse? “don’t worry things will get better” is an awful thing to say to someone in the midst of a difficult situation and shuts down the conversation even more.

No I didn’t know that.

I assume of someone wants to have a conversation about something they want me to help them with actual solutions rather than saying ‘sorry to hear that’ and therefore ending the conversation.

For me personally, if I don’t want to talk about something as it’s private or I don’t want other people making comments than I just wouldn’t tell them.

Obviously if I asked the question then it’s slightly different that they feel they need to answer like if I ask why they’ve not been at work for weeks but if my friend came up to me and said she’s lost her job without me asking, I would assume that she wants a conversation about.

I would never go up to someone and tell them something and then turn around and claim offence when they’re just trying to help.

But it’s good to know that some people feel the way you do and don’t actually want a conversation about things, so thank you for educating me.

It's not about not wanting to have a conversation about it. For many of us we DO want to have a conversation with our closest friends about it but by saying 'it'll get better' is just a fob off. For many infertile couple it doesn't get better. There isn't anything you can say or do to help the situation or any advice you can give, they just want to talk about it and for their friends to know that it's an absolutely wank situation to be in.

What advice could my very fertile friend have given me about my many losses? What could she have done to cheer me up about my husbands botched operation on his undescended testicles when he was a baby resulting in his ridiculously low sperm count?! Or my ultra high NK Cells, Factor V or ANAs? Nothing and she didn't try to. But she did just listen when I needed to talk and she did offer to come to my clinic with me to have my embryos transferred!

You can offer a listening ear without the need to offer advice or to try to 'cheer them up'.

I know it feels nice to offer a solution but that's not what we're looking for!

I never said either way that drug addicts and alcoholics do/don’t have an illness. That wasn’t the point of my post.

Girlfriends often end up in deep and meaningful "life" chats, especially when it's new friendships and you're getting to know each other.

I've not had children through choice, but the question of "isn't it about time you got on with it?" or "When are you having children" is still really galling to me. I'm 44 FGS - I think it's obvious I'm not having them!

As a result it's not a topic that I generally raise. If it comes up in conversation, fine, but I won't ask the question myself.

A more appropriate question to not having children might be "did you ever think about having children?" It gives people the option to either say "it's not for me", or "we tried but it just didn't happen" or "it's not really a subject I'm comfortable talking about".

Anyone that pushes the conversation beyond where someone wants to go deserves any rudeness they get in return.

YANBU OP - I clicked on the thread in the hope that you were talking about puppies or kittens, but felt compelled to reply!

I've heard too many horror stories surrounding adoption particularly to think that it's an easy path or "solution".

Exactly, @UmbilicusProfundus . I know a few people who’ve adopted children and of course every outcome is different. One young adult is at university and doing really well; another teenager has quite severe problems due to his birth mother’s drug use and needs a lot of support, it’s been a roller coaster for his parents. Adoption isn’t an easy way to “get a child.”

And you could well be turned down during the foster carer assessment process if they think you want to do it because you can't have your own kids!

I'm puzzled at what is considered appropriate to say and continue a conversation when someone confides in you their infertility struggles.

I have not been in such a situation but have spoken with childless people when I asked (obv after establishing some reasonable connection in the conversation and having something leading towards family topic, it's not the first thing to say) "Do you have kids?". When the answer is No then I gradually moved on to other things, never once asking the background of the answer.

With infertility issues I guess you must have a very close relationship with the person involved to be told. So you can respond appropriately based on the connection, rather than the societal rules talked about here.

Can we say something like "looking on the bright side" with the benefits of being childfree? Or is that also insensitive?

Lease do not say that! Ever!

*Please even!