To wonder why I am not a likeable person?

[Malteaser999]

What am I doing wrong? I am a nice person to everyone, I'm polite, I compliment my 'friends/acquaintances' new hair, new nails, nice clothes (without ever receiving anything back might I add), I'm a good colleague, I'm polite, I never show when I'm having a bad day at work, I'm a people pleaser .. I would say I take pride in my appearance and I am clean and presentable!! .. Yet I have absolutely no real friends and am constantly left out of everything? I only have a handful of friends who I have noticed meet outside of work (meals out, visit each others houses etc) but I am never invited.. I have even had them discuss their plans stood right infront of me when I thought I was part of their friendship group! I have also just found out two colleagues are meeting for lunch (one I have known for years and the other colleague is new) .. I sit in my car alone to eat lunch.

I think I am a good friend and always check in/offer to be there when needed - I have never once had that in return.

To add - I have even dropped into conversation how lonely I am and still I can see things being planned around me without any invite

AIBU to ask what on earth I am doing wrong and why am I never invited along to anything?! What is it about me that I need to do differently?!

Why, thank you!

This is exactly my point.

Nobody would advise someone - you know what's a really good way to make friends? Talk about data protection law at a hen do. (The other woman had an equally niche personal interest, it was fascinating!)

They'd say things that the OP lists in her first post, but those things aren't what make people friends. I wouldn't say those things about any of my friends.

As for the character assassin - ha, that's helped eliminate another one of the seven billion people on the planet! Never mind eh, I'll survive.

Well, I thought @thecatsthecats' post was one of the most useful contributions to the thread -- though in fairness there have also been some very good analyses of why people-pleasing is ultimately fruitless if you want friends, because you are turning yourself into an invisible listening ear/service provider, and the people around you have no idea who you actually are.

@thecatsthecats's post is useful as a very clear indication of a different way of thinking about the self that is being put out there for friendship -- she is not claiming to be ultra-nice, or that she is polite or issues compliments, she admits that she is opinionated and judgemental and can be very quiet, and she says she's not for everyone. BUT that anyone she meets is in no doubt about the kind of person she is, because she's not curating herself to suit others, so that while many people may not want to pursue a friendship with her, some do, and in fact she's never struggled with friendships.

I think that's quite a helpful approach for the OP to consider. Rather than desperately trying to suit the people she feels excluded by, by being inoffensive and complimentary, she needs to figure out who she actually is and let other people, probably new groups of other people, see that. She will have to deal with people disliking her, but she won't figure as an overlooked shadow, frustrated because all her attempts to be nice and polite and complimentary aren't getting her friends.

Good luck, OP.

Good luck op. I’ve made friends via volunteering with Girlguiding, Slimmingworld (you don’t need to be overweight to go) and a monthly group dog walk. All have opportunities to chat.

I recommend joining a club or volunteering, and being open to finding that the first activity or two that you try doesn't turn out to be the one and ditching those that aren't working out unless you enjoy them for other reasons. I've done quite a few different hobbies and stuff over the years, some I made great friends, some it just never happened.

No one was more surprised than me when I tried a new sport recently, and now people half my age are dragging me off to the pub after training. My social life has completely taken off in my forties and I'm enjoying the sport as well.

Well so what? You found her personality irritating, but at least you know what her personality is. And you don't like it, so you won't be hanging around for favours and advantages.

Other people find her personality appealing, so they hang around to enjoy being in her company.

Either way, she's being true to herself and therefore people know her and decide, based on that, whether they want to know her for herself. Not whether she's a people pleaser who will always do whatever they want and never show herself.

One of the rules in life: If you don't ask you don't get.

They probably assume because you've never expressed an interest during these conversions in joining them that you don't want to, so they don't ask.

Ask them. Literally the worst that could happen is they say no. And if they do well who would want friends like that?

Looking at comments above about not being interested in drinking, neither am I, I can make half a shandy last a long time though, and enjoy people's company while I'm at it.

What is the sport please? Is it netball?

I used to work with somebody who on the face of it was really nice. She paid loads of compliments and always showed a big interest in people's lives, asked lots of questions etc.
I thought she was really fake.

I've had lots of people say this about me. Lot's of "I don't trust her" as well.
I'm autistic and I mask. There's no ulterior motive beyond not making a tit of myself. But other people project their own stuff I guess.

OP not trying to armchair diagnose but could that be it? Some sort of neurodivergence? People tend to pick up on it and dislike you for no discernable reason.

I very rarely socialise with work colleagues apart from an annual meal. My friends have come from uni and then hobbies I developed in my twenties and thirties, not my kids or work. Think wider than work.

I read some great advice on MN a few weeks ago: go to as many events/places as possible, chat pleasantly to everyone (but not for too long) but do not try to make friends!

There's a Mum on the school run I do who sounds like she would write something like this.
She often says she struggles to make friends and she does try very very hard; lots of compliments, lots of offers to do XYZ, if someone needs something on the school group chat - she's the first to offer. She volunteers for every event, she was the class representative last year, she's always organising get togethers etc.

But she does not pick up on social cues at all - she will push and push for people to do events even when it's clear they can't/don't want to do them. She interrupts conversations and will always inadvertently change the conversation to be about her, she will overshare excessively even with people she's literally just met, she tries to engage in "friendly debate" but it often comes across as aggressive and argumentative. She will push herself into social situations - just the other day she invited herself along to two other Mum's coffee date - just announced she was going too.
She's clearly studied/read up on how to make friends - but applies the "techniques" in an almost manic, frightening way which makes people really back away.

Unfortunately, people do tend to steer clear of desperation; which in her case is very strong. I do feel so sorry for her, as she's clearly trying - but she does have a bit of a spiteful streak to her (she's bitched about several people in quite a nasty way), and she seems quite unstable.

OP - I'm not for a moment saying that you are nearly as extreme as this example, but I use it to highlight how she thinks she's doing everything right when actually presenting quite poorly.
Do you think you perhaps are coming on too strong?

I know someone very similar. She thinks of herself as always nice and positive, but she comes across as trite and superficial. Like this

P: Hi Jocasta, you look lovely today ,have you had your hair done? < I know I look like shit and Im wearing casual clothes to work >

J: Actually Pollyanna Im feeling really bad, my gran got rushed into hospital at the weekend, i left there at 4am this morning, Im exhausted.

P: oh well, Im sure she will be home soon, don't worry, you look fine.

J: Gran has bowel cancer and they are worried her liver has packed in. My mum is scared this is it.

P: you just have to channel positive thoughts and send her good vibes, you have to be strong, it doesn’t help to be negative.

I think some people (I am one of them) give off a kind of self-sufficient vibe, so you don't get invited to things or thought about, because people think you're sorting yourself out.

What you need, is either to become that pushy friend who invites themselves along (I've done this once, it worked well) or find a pushy friend who does it for you - I have this now, one lady at school pickup is the kind of person who talks to everyone, brings people together, checks in on them and invites them out and is generally just a one-woman community builder - she's fantastic, and my (limited) social needs are met by her, and a group of people around her.

My advice would be to absolutely concentrate on building up your own life so that friendships are less important to you. Choose a sport - even if you don't think of yourself as sporty. Cultivate a hobby and if nothing appeals sign up for volunteering. Pack your life full; make yourself do it and keep your attention on ideas, learning, challenges etc. Don't lavish attention on work colleagues, become more self-contained, and people will be more drawn to you. I promise it will work.

I was friends with a group from work - well I thought I was. Turns out they saw themselves as friends first, workmates second, whereas I was just someone they were friendly with at work. Friendships in a workplace are rare, and if you can get workmates with the same work ethic as you, who gets along with you and you can work well together, that's great.

Keep your close friendships outside of work.

I also wonder if some of it is appearing shallow or vain, you say you’re into fashion and beauty, I don’t understand how anyone can be into beauty and I say that as someone who is quite high maintenance. That you compliment people on their hair nails and clothes, but you don’t mention their achievements, discuss Complex issues or anything else.

So what do you mean you’re into beauty. Do you like to discuss hair, nails and make up? A lot of people don’t find that stuff interesting enough to say they are “into it” as such.

im addition you say you will Join in a moan and are very polite. I’m wondering if they perceive you as lacking any depth, and that’s the issue, as it’s actually quite rude to keep excluding one person.

the other thing is you classify your colleagues as your friends, do you have other friends, outside work?

Omg these people make me worry I end up on Real crime stories once.

I am generally positive person, every cloud etc, but ffs, some people are incredibly stupid with it to a point of insulting and offensive.

If this was RL example, sorry😔

OP perhaps don’t overanalyse it - sometimes people do meet up independently of each other and in smaller groups, it happens to everyone and it’s not always personal. Don’t overthink it or try too hard to second guess yourself.

Of course you'll survive since you have no intention of pleasing everyone! You've made a choice to be marmite and overshare so reactions like mine are par for the course.

The op couldn't be you in a month of Sundays. Her biggest problem is probably a deep feeling of inferiority. Your self indulgent post won't have helped. The same points could be made in a much less look at me way. I'm so glad to hear you're sure that your friends would all say nice things about you. Speaking to someone who has just confessed their lack of friends, I do find you tiresomely self absorbed. But as you've said, lots of people love to say nice things about you so I'm sure it all evens out.

@Lincolnremainer PM'd you, too outing as people are forever saying about hobbies.

Unless you are making furniture from local missing cats, it's usually not outing 😂

People pleasing is not a good trait though. You need to give less of a shit about most people.

It's even worse to people please people who don't return any interest in you.

My colleague who I see maybe twice a year since she moved teams just put lunch in my diary. She didn't check the date or time with me, she just put it in and not it's up to me to either accept or decline or propose a new date and time. I will happily accept.

You need to take the thinking out of it for people and just put lunch/coffees in people's diaries.

People pleasing is not a good trait though. You need to give less of a shit about most people.

The thing is lots of people pleasers actually do if you think about it. They don't please people to make the people happy, they do it to make themselves happy (or whatever the satisfaction is) even when others protest the "help" etc.

The 'find your tribe' thing is way harder than some people realise! I'm still looking for mine and I know they're out there but never in the right place at the right time, slippery buggers. Or maybe I don't want a tribe? My pals all seem diverse and are not a homogenous group and frankly some of them are more than an acquaintance but not close friends. What do you want or need?