Shamima Begum's mother

[AddingUp]

I read an article about Shamima Begum's mother in the Daily Mail. I am very much in the camp that Shamima Begum should come back to the UK and be trialed here as her crimes.

Anyway, the mother says how close she was with Shamima and how she misses her etc.

If I were Shamima Begum's mum and my daughter was not allowed into the UK, I would travel to the refugee camp to be with her. Or, I would take my daughter to Bangladesh just to be with her and not leave her on her own.

I don't understand why Shamima Begum's mum takes no action to support her daughter!

I do agree that Shamima was groomed etc of course. Not sure how easily a belief system someone holds that seriously is genuinely overthrown, though.

I did actually think about this when I was typing my response but I went off on a philosophical tangent 😅 If someone was groomed, while it wouldn't absolve them completely, the brainwashing and the grooming WOULD be taken into account as a mitigating factor. It might not mean they got off scot-free, but the punishment would likely be reduced. I don't think anyone is suggesting that she escapes all punishment, but just that some extreme punishment isn't in keeping with a child who was radicalised and groomed.

I cannot BELIEVE I am justifying bringing her back 😅🤦🏻‍♀️ Genuinely, every instinct in my body thinks she bloody deserves it and sod her. I'm just trying to question whether that really is fair and proportionate. I think that's the word actually - proportionate. Is exile a proportionate punishment for a child who was groomed into taking those actions, bearing in mind she also didn't actively participate in any of the violence herself, just acted as a cheerleader. As I say, I'm absolutely not defending her!!! I'm just trying to think things through fairly.

@beAsensible1 - I'll try and find it for you now!

I don't think SB can ever be 'rehabilitated' and return to the UK, so you'd be expecting her dm to live abroad indefinitely. As soon as SB steps foot in the UK there'd be a price on her head from some unhinged person.

Well she hasn't been convicted of any crimes, maybe she should come back and have a trial rather than people just deciding based on what they've read in the paper.

Sure let her mum go there. SB can stay there.

AH, so the teenage girls groomed by gangs in Rotherham and Rochdale knew right from wrong and deserved what they got? Many of them were 15 year olds. And were groomed. You cannot pick and choose which 15 year old groomed girls are victims and which ones are criminals.

And we currently have NO evidence that she has committed a crime. Rumour. Speculation. And the Daily Mail. But no court of law has found her guilty of anything. If the Syrians had evidence that she committed crimes, don't you think they'd have charged her?

@AddingUp the mom misses the memory of her daughter. Her daughter as she knew her has changed. No one can go back in time.
Her daughter is where she is due to poor life choices and being 23 hopefully will come through this in a different place than a refugee camp (not U.K.).

Who are you proposing @AddingUp who takes responsibility for SB or her mother on the journey to the camp, or them both back if she gets released? Protected by the very people SB went out to kill/torture etc. I really don't understand those that see SB as a victim! Who could honestly look at what ISIS were doing and their manifesto and think 'yay, that looks great, they look like are on the right side of things'?!

Those girls in Rotherham were white so of course it wasn't their fault. SB is brown so she is guilty. It's quite simple really.

If she was a blue eyed blonde from a middle class family, with educated parents who knew how to deal with the press - the whole situation would have been viewed differently from day one. She would have been seen as a victim who needed to be rescued.

I don't think you can " just go" to a refugee camp in Northern Syria. controlled by armed guards. It's lawless, dangerous and you'd need all sorts of visas and contacts and specialist knowledge.Just getting there would be so difficult. God alive. It's not Tenerife.

Irrelevant that journalists go there. There are always journalists in war zones.

It's a horrible situation for her mother who is probably out of her mind with worry but you sound very naive.

In the absence of any trial, how do people decide on her guilt and innocence other than by what they read in the paper? (by which you mean Daily Mail, of course).

@MichelleScarn Exactly. I have a daughter the same age and there's no way she would think going to a Middle Eastern country to meet a man she didn't know to marry would be a good idea. There must have been something within her that wanted to get involved in that way of life. You don't accidentally get on a plane and travel halfway across the world on a whim.

OP you do realise that you cannot just rock up to a country and say hi I am living here now. She is not going to be able to move into the camp. She is not a refugee. Normally when you move to a country you need to have a certain about of money, a job lined up just to get a visa and I doubt they are easily got.

If she brings her daughter to Bangladesh she is bring her to her death. Authorities there have said she will be killed if she arrives there.

It essentially boils down to race.

As someone said upthread, Virginia Giuffre who herself recruited girls for Epstein has received much sympathy. Some backlash, sure, but empathy as a victim of trafficking.

With SB it doesn't matter how old she was, or whether she was trafficked. She's stripped of her citizenship whilst not having provable crimes, which frankly is about as racist as it comes. Please don't get me wrong, if you come here from another country and claim asylum and then commit a horrendous crime, I am cold. You should be shipped right back to your origin country.

But when you've only ever had a British Passport and your parents are from another country and you are told to go back there having stepped foot there, seriously?

I mean that affects everyone whose parents have dual citizenship, the message is loud and clear: we're still not fully British, able to expect a fair trial under the legal system here. We can be expected to go to our parents country.

She was 15. I remember myself at 15. I once stole something precious from my brother, sold it and denied I had anything to do with it and it only hit me a few years later how disgusting and wrong that was. I feel shitty to this day. My brain was not fully developed yet. My sense of right and wrong was still being fine tuned and I had an optimistic teen outlook on getting away with crap.

I honestly thought Savid Javid was trying to appear extra tough because he was conscious of being seen to be soft due to his own race, and I note that Home Secretaries since have been ethnic and yet all seem to feel the need to be 'extra tough' on immigration etc and over- compensate for their race. I felt his decision (to strip citizeship) at the time was playing to the press, and his prime ministerial ambitions, and he was happy to throw her under the bus, as if to say 'I may not be white but I am just as much one of you, and for this country'

I honestly felt she would have had a fairer judgement had someone white been HS that year.

And then don't get me started on the photographer who found her wading in with his tuppence.

Personally I don't feel massive sympathy, but I don't like what seems partially based on race.

If Begum’s mother was initially supportive, she would have protected her daughter from the get go.
This “Radicalisation “ is unlikely to have happened in a secure and loving family.

I am fed up of this women who says she has lost three children and now pretends to be a with it young women who was trafficked.

Just wait until the 'woke's get hold of her. Thing is who would like to live next door to her? She knew what she was doing but it hasnt worked out for her. I saw that interview she did. There was no remorse - just an entitled women who saw an opportunity to get back to 'soft touch ' UK.

*having never

So she was born in Britain, grew up in Britain, was educated in Britain but she shouldn't come here.

Which country do you think should take responsibility? Bangladesh have said she's not going there and let's be fair they are a poor country, suffering the affects of global warming and dealing with the refugees from Myanmar. Syria, why would Syria be responsible for her, she has no connection to Syria and they are trying to recover from a war. The Kurds? The people with no country to call their own, the people who fought bravely against ISIS, you think they should take the burden? Or maybe Britain should accepts it's responsibility for a British born woman and if she is believed to have done wrong then she should face court and if guilty jail.

I don't see it as is she entitled to be in the UK but is the UK responsible for dealing with her.

Needs no support. Her own actions had consequences. I sure as hell wouldn't want her back here.

Was that the one with the ISIS men in black behind her as she sat holding her baby who died shortly afterwards? Yes I bet you'd criticise ISIS in that position.

She should not be made to live by the decisions she made at aged 15.

Why not? As a pp said, we punish criminals much younger than 15. I have zero sympathy for her or her apologists.

I do struggle to see the difference between her and the girls abused in the Rochdale scandal.

This is disgusting.
There's is a MASSIVE difference between young teenage girls being RAPED by grown men compared to Shamima traveling to Syria where she has justified the torture and killings of INNOCENT people - and to this day she has never expressed any remorse for her actions. She just paints herself as a victim.
How dare you compare her to young girls that were exploited and raped.

At 13/14/15 years old I could have quite easily had sex with an older man (aka RAPE) thinking he was my 'boyfriend' or that he 'loved me' and that I 'owed him something' because he was so good to me .. but I wouldn't have travelled to a terrorist organisation and happily watched people be literally beheaded and thought it was right.

I think the reason there's a lot less public sympathy for SB as compared to other minors who commit crimes, is the way she spoke about what happened when she was an adult. I believe she said some cold things that implied she still very much believed in what she was doing, and it wasn't for many years that she expressed regret. Also she wasn't a vulnerable teen in care, she was a loved child in a stable happy family as far as I'm aware.
Many people in this country have lost loved ones due to Islamic terrorism, so few people feel sympathy for someone who buys into their doctrine.

The girls in Rotherham and VG didn't commit any terrorist crimes or join a terrorist group! That's how they differ!