Shamima Begum's mother

[AddingUp]

I read an article about Shamima Begum's mother in the Daily Mail. I am very much in the camp that Shamima Begum should come back to the UK and be trialed here as her crimes.

Anyway, the mother says how close she was with Shamima and how she misses her etc.

If I were Shamima Begum's mum and my daughter was not allowed into the UK, I would travel to the refugee camp to be with her. Or, I would take my daughter to Bangladesh just to be with her and not leave her on her own.

I don't understand why Shamima Begum's mum takes no action to support her daughter!

You would have no empathy for someone who had 3 babies die, all conceived by men who were strangers on her wedding die when she was a child?

wow, you sound like an absolute delight

do people still take the gutter press seriously? I thought MN was educated, at least to some extent?
Or is that you, Rupert, bored and on the Jamesons?

I don't understand why Shamima Begum's mum takes no action to support her daughter!

I do.

You love your children unconditionally

I'm pretty certain her mother loved this child unconditionally, as well

www.dw.com/en/german-islamic-state-wife-charged-with-murder-of-5-year-old-slave/a-46889934

The woman was a member of the morality police, the same bunch Begum's alleged to have belonged to. Nice people.

www.arabnews.com/node/1482391/amp

I don't think these refugee camps are places you can just rock up to and decide to live in.

I would have thought that option is just not open to her.

I think there comes a point where people need to take responsibility for their own behaviour and where parents need to leave their adult children to learn how to solve their own problems. You go out join a terrorist group and commit alleged crimes against other people? You should take responsibility for that.

She might have been 15 (and 6 months) when she went out there but she was an adult in the eyes of the law and she was literally only underage for the first 6 months she was out there.

How do you expect to have a positive and nurturing relationship with someone who was part of a radical terrorist group, who has stated she doesn't regret it, and has only expressed remorse when there is something in it for her? You'd have to be a total mug.

When she left UK jurisdiction she was 15, had been radicalised and was trafficked into Syria

The first bit of that statement is true; the second and third might or might not be, but they certainly reveal bias towards Shamima's claimed "victim" status

As for her being "closely monitored" ... a different case of course, but like Michael Pleasted was??

You would have no empathy for someone who had 3 babies die, all conceived by men who were strangers on her wedding die when she was a child? The father was the same man who by SB's own account she was fond of. Not that that condones the whole thing. I'm very conflicted because there are IS people here who haven't been stripped of their citizenship. No matter what she did, I think she's been made a scapegoat.

It's only illegal to remove citizenship if you would be left stateless, i.e you're not holding or entitled to hold another country's citizenship, and even in that circumstance there are exceptions when the UNHCR recognises that someone could legally be made stateless, disloyalty to the state is one of them. She was entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship so it was legal to revoke her British citizenship. Obviously the state can't go around removing anyone's citizenship for no reason, but if they have just cause then it's not illegal.

I find the whole subject of Shamima Begum and her punishment really confusing.

Generally, we don't hold 15 yr olds accountable if they are groomed/brainwashed. While I don't believe that she was "trafficked" as they're claiming, I can't see how there can be any doubt that she was radicalised and groomed. She was an underage teen, a child, and vulnerable to radicalisation.

So on one hand, it's hard to argue against allowing her to return and stand trial, essentially treating her as a groomed/brainwashed child. Like a cult member.

Emotionally I can't help but think "fuck her". I don't want her to come back. I don't believe she's genuinely contrite. I think she's had advice and is saying the smart things to try and manoeuvre her way back to the UK. There was a journalist who did a documentary who was originally supporting her cause. Later on, he changed his perspective and described her as manipulative and dangerous and realised that she'd played him. I can try and find the link somewhere if necessary.

But no matter how I feel, is it actually fair not to allow her to come back? Is it ethical to strip citizenship away from someone who took actions as a result of being groomed as a child? Would we treat a white cult member who was groomed into membership as a teen child in the same way?

I think perhaps my feelings are influenced by her early interviews where she expressed zero remorse and talked casually about seeing beheaded heads in baskets etc. It was genuinely shocking.

The acts of terrorism are so awful, I think it's really understandable to have an innate response of "she can rot in fucking hell after what she's helped to enable". But I guess the question I keep asking myself is whether that's actually a fair decision, or just an emotional reaction to the horrors of terrorism combined with suspicion about how authentic her change of heart really is.

I believe that she could have claimed citizenship elsewhere based on her marriage, not just in Bangladesh? Until very recently she still wanted to reunite with her terrorist husband....

Is there a genuine risk that after serving time she'd be a risk for re-radicalisation and become an active cell member for terrorist causes again? I can't imagine she has a positive opinion of the west/UK after the "way she's been treated"....

Honestly, my head spins thinking about it. I always try to challenge my thoughts and think things through logically because it's easy to be biased. But with Shamima Begum, I honestly can't figure out what the "right" thing to do is.

How was she able to even leave the U.K. at the airport with her being underage and no parental consent?

I'm not sure that visitors can just go to these camps OP (although journalists have). I do know they're very dangerous, so the DM might be afraid to go and worried that she may be detained herself? Either way, I think the Foreign Office would advise against her travelling there.

As for taking Shamima to Bangladesh, I'm pretty sure Bangladesh have said they don't want her. She doesn't hold a Bangladeshi passport, so wouldn't be able to just leave the camp and go there AFAIK.

So yeah, if she was my DC I like to think I would take the risk and go and visit her, but it would probably be very complicated, dangerous and inadvisable for her DM to do so.

Maybe Syria don't want to let her in, maybe whoever is running the camps (I think it is Kurds) don't want another woman to look after.

It isn't only the UK that has borders.

Where was the mother when the girl decided to leave? Did she not realise or care that she was being radicalised?

If my child ran away to join a death cult that revelled in murder and oppression, I'm not sure I would continue contact.

@ExhaustedFlamingo id love the link if you have it. believe she was definitely groomed and brainwashed and that she's not that remorseful doesn't mean we shouldnt be putting her in a uk jail though.

why shouldn't other countries get to deport our criminals to us, we do the same

Generally, we don't hold 15 yr olds accountable if they are groomed/brainwashed. While I don't believe that she was "trafficked" as they're claiming, I can't see how there can be any doubt that she was radicalised and groomed. She was an underage teen, a child, and vulnerable to radicalisation.

But we do. Think of gang members, often groomed from young. If they commit crimes after the age of criminal responsibility, they are tried, as it should be. Sure, age and gravity of offense will play a role in sentencing, but we don't just say "oh, you stabbed someone, nevermind, you were groomed, off you go".

Who radicalised her and how? this seems to be a bit of a mystery.

She was 15. A child. A child trafficked to be a sex slave ("wife").
I will never understand the hatred for her and sympathy for other child victims of sex trafficking

I was thinking of booking an Easyjet flight and transfer.

Legally you aren't an adult till you are 18 so she was underage for 2 and a half years.

Maybe because the Daily Mail would then report ‘Shamima’s mother caught aiding her daughter enter the country illegally’ or some twisted BS

You would have no empathy for someone who had 3 babies die ...?

Don't you mean allegedly had 3 babies die, tenbob?

Personally I've no idea if it happened or not, but surprising as it might seem, some who hope to tug at the heartstrings in pursuit of something they want aren't always entirely truthful

I imagine her mum is settled here and doesn't want to give up her life here (for a grown up now, not a child that needs her mum.)

But I know a lot of people/MNers have an odd idea that childhood never ends and their child should be babied all their life.

But really, I imagine the mum has a better quality of life here and that's why she stays.

I can understand the position of being sympathetic to SB, being her Mum and wanting her safe.

Is her Mum rich enough to support herself there? Fit enough to live in a refugee camp? How would she get there? How would she get out?