Not allowed siblings at my sons nativity play .. including my breast fed baby??

[WinnieLovett]

My daughter is 4 months old and breastfeeding.

My two other sons are involved in the school nativity play. The school will be having two performers one at 2:30 and one at 7:00.

I have been informed that the school has a ‘no sibling rule’ to watching so I will not be allowed to bring my daughter. The issue is these times are both when she has milk.

I was also told by the head that she may make noise and interrupt the performance !!

Really sad as I don’t want to miss it ! But do not feel happy leaving my baby at these times!

YANBU because your 4 month old is not a sibling that is going to sit & watch the show so they won’t be taking up any space so the school’s ‘no sibling’ rule is not relevant BUT on the flip side how much of the hour to hour & a half long show show will you realistically be able to watch while breastfeeding?

Personally I would choose one session to go watch, afternoon is probably going to be the easiest but baby will dictate how it goes, & either sit at the back so you can do baby thing or have someone else manage baby while you are at the event.
Will baby take a bottle if you express some milk for them? Maybe give bottle feeding some expressed milk a try, from now, then it gives you an option for a break & others helping with feeds going forward. It is one feed you would possibly need to extend/miss & one event you need to make it to so see what you can wangle if school are completely unmoving on their no sibling rule.
Send your partner or grandparents to watch the second show if your kids would like someone to be there for both

Children spend hours and hours learning their nativity to perform to parents. It wouldn’t be fair if it was spoilt by crying. I would see if whoever looks after her can literally wait outside the school with her in the pram, feed before you go in, they can push her about for half an hour then you go straight back out and can feed again. Let your sons enjoy you having eyes just on them for half an hour. They will be so proud. Every school has this rule and I agree with it for the sake of the children performing.

Let us know how the show goes & how baby manages with bottle of expressed milk or change of routine.
I am sure your kids will have a blast whatever you do or don’t manage to arrange❤
We’ve all learnt, more than ever recently, that some people are just super angry, judgmental & aggressive in their comments, which are often not helpful & completely out of order, but we are all different & without difference life would be so boring.
All we can really do is either ignore them, thank them for their inappropriate/ angry/ hurtful comment, sympathise with their sadness or advise them to seek help 😂

I’m so glad I don’t have to attend school performances anymore. We would have to start queuing at least an hour in advance to get a seat. Then I would spend 30 mins in a boiling stinking hall not being about to see my child whilst watching others little darlings. My child was always at the back or the opposite side of the hall to me. Babies would cry and parents would be up and down squeezing past to finally take their child out of the hall. The first row of seats was always reserved for governors but even with signs on the seats some entitled parents thought they could sit there. Ahh deep breath.

That is not all you have suggested.

You suggested OP make a complaint that would have no legal basis. You said that it was discrimination to prevent a woman from bf a child under 6 months old in a public place, which was utterly unhelpful. You said that the HT would have to accept that a blanket sibling ban is discriminatory, which they wouldn't because it isn't, and have wrongly claimed that equality law trumps sibling rules, which it doesn't because nothing in the equality act would actually give protection here. You're now veering between the head couldn't stop OP and/or the baby coming into the performance anyway (they could) and they wouldn't call the police because apparently you just know, although you have now admitted that you can't predict the future. This is all, put bluntly, guff.

While your intention is obviously to be supportive, you've failed. Misstating the law even when it's repeatedly explained what it is, that's just not helpful or supportive.

The me me me and entitlement points weren't made by me, btw. I've no particular interest in the subjective opinions part of the thread. My concern here is the wall of nonsense about the law.

You have an issue with me and my posts. I can’t help what you think about me and my understanding. It is a nativity play. The HT is not going to get the mum arrested. I did suggest discussing it beforehand and using the school complaints procedure if necessary. I don’t believe the HT’s ‘request’ to parents constitutes a legally enforceable rule. I work in a school. I deal with safeguarding. I know the reasons why access is limited. I know that a breastfeeding baby does not ‘count’ in terms of taking up a seat for someone else. Totally unnecessary. You might know the law inside out. You tell me then, what should a woman do if she is exclusively breastfeeding a baby u set six months of age, and she is prevented from attending her own child’s event at school because of a directive from the HT that siblings must not attend. CN she question whether <6 months on mum’s lap is acceptable? Can she question the fairness of the ‘ban’? Or are schools allowed to behave however they like without any challenge?

my issue is not with breastfeeding per se, discrimination/equality etc, but with the way that schools as someone else put it ‘rude roughshod’ over reasonable requests and enforce inflexible ‘rules’ without taking due consideration of the fact that they could be discriminating against certain people (indirectly or whatever else).

I challenged an employer in an employment tribunal (successfully) when they tried to enforce a blanket ‘rule’ which was indirectly discriminatory so I do know something. The HT at the time was worried about ‘opening the floodgates’ but individual cases are just that… and do not set a precedent that is going to lead to impending disaster. Good HTs know this.

nastypastie you are not wrong. There is so much bollocks on this thread, and those stating that you don’t understand the law don’t under it themselves. I stepped away from it yesterday because it’s just going round in circles with people convinced they are right when they’re not.
There is no legal basis to the school’s request and there absolutely is a legal basis for suggesting that the request is discriminatory both to breastfeeding mothers and to single parents / parents of disabled children.

This is absurd.

Being a breastfeeding mum doesn't override everything else. The school is not banning breastfed siblings only; it is banning ALL siblings. Perfectly sensible and fair.

If you ban all sibling, that doesn’t make it ‘fair’ because all are banned. I think you either see it or you don’t. I wouldn’t leave my child under 6 months because of such a ‘ban’. I would challenge it.

What is the “AIBU”?

”I will miss my DS’s nativity”

• YANBU - you have a small baby who needs your attention and your DH can see the evening show. I wouldn’t worry too much.
• If you want to go you can see them then maybe you could feed your DD earlier or possibly express and give via bottle if she will accept it. Provided that someone else can help of course.

”I think an exception should be made to the ‘no sibling’ rule” - YABU, nativities would be a nightmare if parents brought small babies. If the school makes an exception for you then they need to do it for everyone else. You wouldn’t be able to hear the children in the nativity which is the whole point.

Hope you get something sorted so that you can go.

Except the breastfed siblings can’t be left, so the school is preventing mothers of breastfed siblings from attending. And don’t say ‘baby will be fine without a boob’ - some might, others will not.

The policy is also preventing single parents from attending, as well as parents of children with disabilities who cannot be left.

There is a legal duty for public bodies to consider the impact of their policies on those with protected characteristics, including disability, pregnancy and maternity. Those with protected characteristics can also be treated ‘more favourably’ under the Act.

The Head isn’t going to have siblings removed, nor are the police going to do so, don’t be silly. Trespass is a civil matter and the police will only intervene if there is breach of the peace.

i have had children in four different primary schools, none of which have ever excluded younger siblings. It wasn’t a nightmare. There was never any issue. The only annoying disruption has been parents jumping up and down and waving phones to take photos.

The baby won’t be fussing if it’s feeding in any case. People just generally go outside if a baby cries.

This is by no means a universal rule. I have never known younger ones excluded.

Their duty is to prioritize the pupils in the school, and ensure that their performance is not undermined.

So how about the position of those being disturbed by crying baby ?make this plural if there are others. It’s a performance and a child has worked at their role. It would be awful not to give respect to those on stage often for the first time.

@WinnieLovett You say she's not happy at that time of day? The more reason to not take her to the play because you are practically sure she will be fussy and or crying, no?

Nope. Not legally, it isn’t. And did you miss what I said about it never having been an issue in any of my dc’s schools?

Having successfully challenged an employer in a tribunal might well mean you know something about that specific issue. It doesn't mean you know anything about this one, as you have demonstrated.

Equally, working in one school doesn't mean you know the first thing about this one, much less that any of your beliefs matter. You've been making pronouncements about whether the police would be required or called to prevent someone entering, when you have no idea of the layout, and how the head will respond. This also needs information about the context, which the OP hasn't provided.

By all means have an issue with this rule if you want. I'm not arsed either way about your take on that and there is a reason that I've not engaged with you on those points. Because it's got nothing to do with what the law actually says.

In relation to what the OP should do, the only advice I would give her is what the legal position is. That she should be aware of that before deciding what to do, and give short shrift to the you go mummy type stuff on this thread. She can then decide from a position of knowledge whether she wants to speak to the head and if so what to say and what not to say, whether she'd prefer to try adjusting the feeding times, or just opt out entirely.

Are you really making a massive deal out of this? Would it really be a problem to just feed her a little bit before and then go and watch it in peace and not worry that the baby will also disturb the entire play that the children have worked really hard on?

Seriously how entitled are people these days

The school has now said that parents with children up to 6 months can attend the rehearsal.

I will be attending that now.

I am pleased I had a conversation with the head and I feel this is fair all round (I am sure some of you guys will disagree 😂)

I think having a rehearsal that parents of young babies can attend us a good solution. You will all be in the same boat, the staff can start or stop the rehearsal if eg a child’s lines can’t be heard or after a disruption, and there will be relatively of you there so if your baby starts screaming it will be easy for you to leave without pushing through packed rows. I hope that you enjoy it!

Commonsense prevails. So much for the ridiculous idea that the Hat would have you arrested for trespassing. Well done for raising it OP and I hope you both enjoy the play

Glad it is all sorted, and common sense seemed to be used at last. Enjoy the play.

I don’t disagree. It’s win/win. You get to see the rehearsal of play and the school is adhering to its rules for the actual performance.

There is a legal duty for public bodies to consider the impact of their policies on those with protected characteristics, including disability, pregnancy and maternity.

You’re talking about the PSED. Yes, to consider. The school may well be able to demonstrate that it has considered this, but decided that allowing young babies and children in would prevent the play from running successfully. It would be entitled, legally entitled, to do so, as long as it has actually considered it.

Not one person incorrectly going on about the law has managed to explain how they’d get around the fact that discrimination is permissible if it’s a proportionate way to achieve a legitimate aim. Not one. You can all shout “discrimination!!!!”, but proving it is a two step process.

In any case, good result OP. A win for both parties - you’ll get to see the play with your DD, and there won’t be an audience to be disturbed by her. The kids will also get their time to shine in the full performances.

Honestly OP, I'm with you, it should absolutely be a family occasion. So what if kids make a bit of noise, it's a school play, not the Royal Albert Hall.

Breastfed babies are probably the easiest to keep quiet too - any time mine murmered in church/at a school play/in the cinema I stuck them on the boob and they were quiet.

All these people saying "it's standard" to have a no sibling rule.... not at all schools it's not.